Chile Wealth, Inequality, and International rankings

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41southchile
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Re: Chile Wealth, Inequality, and International rankings

Post by 41southchile » Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:32 am

admin wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:31 am
somewhere i read the averge income in russia is less than india, but you sure would not know it plus or minus 5 blocks from red square where they parade 2 dozen lamborginias up down the street.

but, that gets back to my origianal point. a vast amount of wealth from russia, and the people that owns it, leaks out of russia and other emerging markets. often it is not even the ultra rich, but the middle. as soon as someone has sufgicient money, they leave.

i suspect in particularly corrupt or unstable countries, they may never be able to close the gap. why would anyone risk what little they got hanging around?

i have more than a few logical bones to pick with the whole idea of "income inequality".

bill gates and i have a crazy income inequality gap, and i realy dont care. i was never even jelious, until i read the story about him having a tundra bus airlifted on to the ice of antartica so his family could drive around for a few hours.

but tundra busses aside, for the most part i have everything i need for the moment, and most everything i want is at least ahypotheticaly a possibility; even if some are more remote.

where we differ is not so much our income, but our opertunities. income inequality implies that gap, if closed between groups with sufficent income, will make for equal opertunities. sorry the world does not work that way, nor is that very helpful.

there are many better messures, but what we should be driving at is equality of opertunity. especialy basic opertunities. do you have the opertunity to eat every day? see a doctor? education? retirment? travel? etc.

hell, how about just the opertunity to work in some field you like? or, not work at all, even just for a little while?

how do you measure the gap in life opertunities?

something perhaps like. given certain basic opertunities in life, could the person fullfill their potential as a person?

did the poor kid from the streets of mumbai, get a chance to find out if he was a great doctor, writer, mechanic, etc?

here is where we start crossing in to more subjective measures, and things like the recent life satisfaction surveys probably are more useful.

so, i get why they like the gini numbers as a imperfect tool, but i am also suspicious of the tendency of the leftist politicians to want to use them as an excuse to smuggle in old school marxist policies under the cover of fixing income inequality. we dont need to equalize bill gates and my income. i think we will both be fine. likewise, i believe most of the poor would be just fine with a bit more income, although i am sure they would not turn down a billion dollars.

my point is, that talking about income inequality, does not get us any closer to solving the real problems of poverty, especialy extreme poverty.
Exactly, Interesting I have found reading lately there seems to be more push back on this whole issue of income inequality, it's a distraction that is not solving issues, I don't think most people would give a shit if a few dozen people owned more than half the world's population if they were secure in the knowledge that if their child got sick they could take them to the doctor or that they had access to educational opportunities etc. Its not one or another making everyone have similar incomes or a smaller gap tells us nothing .
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Re: Chile Wealth, Inequality, and International rankings

Post by admin » Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:10 pm

realy at a billion dollars, your quality of life is not getting any better with more money. is someone with say 20 billion, realy living that much better than say someone with just a billion, or even 100 milliin? what they have diffrent colored yahts to match their wife's shoes?

even a couple hundred million. yea, you don't loose any sleep about making the payment in your lear jet.

probably if you look at liquidity of the richest people in the world, they probably dont have much more than a couple hundred million on hand at any given moment (for impulse buy's at art auctions i guess) .

all the rest is just shuffling paper around. you have to park most of it somewhere.

you go from there, wittling down what is realy needed to have everything you need, and everything you might want. i would guess most people in the world could get away with a lot less than a million dollars, but let's call it just in case you get an incling to buy a ferrari in the middle of the night, 10 million.

but if you start eliminating silly 'i don't know what to spend mu lottery money on' problems, probably most people only need about 100,000 or 200,000 u.s. to meet all their needs, most of their wants, and generaly feel secure. call it 1 million, if you factor in say a nice retirment, a second home, kids university, etc.

what does it take to not worry about money anymore, i guess? obviously, 1 million gets you more depending in where you live, but that will cover most people in most countries today.
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Re: Chile Wealth, Inequality, and International rankings

Post by admin » Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:42 pm

62% percent of americans do not earn a wage that would support a middle class lifestyle.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-10- ... class-life

i think they realy don't want to move the definition of "middle", to match reality: americans are poorer.
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Re: Chile Wealth, Inequality, and International rankings

Post by admin » Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:48 pm

interesting these people created an opertunoty index. i have not had a chance to look at it yet:

https://www.thirdway.org/report/the-opp ... an-america
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Re: Chile Wealth, Inequality, and International rankings

Post by admin » Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:43 pm

Earlier this month, I went and looked at the latest numbers from the Social Security Administration, and I discovered that 50 percent of all American workers make less than $30,533 a year. But that is just above poverty level. In fact, the federal poverty level for a family of five is currently $29,420
that is about 21,000,000 pesos.
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41southchile
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Re: Chile Wealth, Inequality, and International rankings

Post by 41southchile » Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:21 pm

admin wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:43 pm
Earlier this month, I went and looked at the latest numbers from the Social Security Administration, and I discovered that 50 percent of all American workers make less than $30,533 a year. But that is just above poverty level. In fact, the federal poverty level for a family of five is currently $29,420
that is about 21,000,000 pesos.
Thats 1.75 million CLP a month, is it.
To have access to good medical care, decent kids education if you have, decent nice house to rent, fuel, and food you would be unable to do that in Puerto Varas for 1.75, im not allowing for mobile phone, electricity, internet, transport, and others, you ideally want to be on 3.5 to 4 million to have a good style of life down here if you are a family.
60 to 70k USD a year as a family should get you a good comfortble life here, but with no money really to spare to go back to your home country for holidays though.
In the Lakes Region Chile for 6 years. It looks like New Zealand in some ways, and is nearly at the bottom of the world too, but there the similarities end.

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Re: Chile Wealth, Inequality, and International rankings

Post by tiagoabner » Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:01 pm

The actual numbers are different based on your lifestyle. I was actually crushing some numbers this week, as I wanted to see how expensive Portugal was when compared to Chile in order to get the same quality of life (spoilers: about 250€ more expensive per month) and I would be spending CLP $1.300.000 per month in Chile. That would be for me and for my wife, it wouldn't include travel, but it would account for taxes, health insurance and social security.

That is roughly 4 Chilean minimum wages. And it is low when compared to the costs for a couple living well, but not splurging. It seems that the old, proven back of the napkin calculation of USD $1,000 per person per month continues to hold true.

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Re: Chile Wealth, Inequality, and International rankings

Post by admin » Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:21 am

tiagoabner wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:01 pm
The actual numbers are different based on your lifestyle. I was actually crushing some numbers this week, as I wanted to see how expensive Portugal was when compared to Chile in order to get the same quality of life (spoilers: about 250€ more expensive per month) and I would be spending CLP $1.300.000 per month in Chile. That would be for me and for my wife, it wouldn't include travel, but it would account for taxes, health insurance and social security.

That is roughly 4 Chilean minimum wages. And it is low when compared to the costs for a couple living well, but not splurging. It seems that the old, proven back of the napkin calculation of USD $1,000 per person per month continues to hold true.

you know i honestly sort of made that $1000 per person rule up years ago, with little to no thought behind it other than trying to anticipate the department of immigration's paper pushers and what they might percieve as sufficient income to live in chile, with a margin of error to insure aplications would not be rejected with the excuse of insufficient resources or income. in fact base number was derived from a guestimate of not what foreigner would need to live in chile, but what an average low level employe, processing aplications at immigration makes per month.
essentialy, what would they percieve as sufficent or resonable income to live in chile.
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Re: Chile Wealth, Inequality, and International rankings

Post by admin » Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:37 am

so here a case of something that baffles me:

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-11- ... assistance

in my mind "middle class" broadly is that group of people in a society that does not require government assistance to make ends meet.

but, how do define the "middle" when over half the population, or at least half the households, is getting some sort of government assistance?

that is even when you bite on the artificially low definition used by the u.s. government. really the net is much wider if you count all the people that really need government assistance, but don't receive it or don't qualify due to a politically drawn line.
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Re: Chile Wealth, Inequality, and International rankings

Post by at46 » Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:16 pm

admin wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:37 am
so here a case of something that baffles me:

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-11- ... assistance

in my mind "middle class" broadly is that group of people in a society that does not require government assistance to make ends meet.
That's pretty old school. There's a very small percentage of the population in a country like Canada, for example, that's not hooked up to the government in one form or another. Doctors, teachers, army/navy/lawmakers/law enforcement and government administrators are obviously directly funded by the government. But every industry that's regulated - and pretty much all of them are regulated in one form or another - is also hooked up to the government, just a bit less directly. Like car assembly workers making $70+ an hour thanks to the unions and government subsidies to build those factories or keep them from bankruptcy. Or milk/egg farmers who are able to overcharge consumers thanks to the government price control system. When these people go into town for their life-style spending, that spending is, therefore, also government subsidized, although indirectly, which leaves almost nothing that's not on the receiving end of some government largess.

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