AFP: Opening the black box

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thisisreallycomplicated
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Re: AFP: Opening the black box

Post by thisisreallycomplicated » Fri Sep 07, 2018 3:56 pm

admin wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:50 am
We know how to do these type of systems / investment funds, why the hell are we messing around with all these crappy over priced funds.
Insurance companies make lots of money on these crappy overpriced funds. So they pay their salespeople/politicians very high commissions to sell them.
“Now it’s conspiracy – they’ve made that something that should not even be entertained for a minute, that powerful people might get together and have a plan. Doesn’t happen, you’re a kook, you’re a conspiracy buff!” – George Carlin

thisisreallycomplicated
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Re: AFP: Opening the black box

Post by thisisreallycomplicated » Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:09 pm

admin wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:23 pm
Their returns are crap. What was it last year for the highest risk best performing fund like 4 or 5% or something, and the others were flat to negative.
If you also have US Social Security, your small AFP gains will effectively be replaced by huge AFP losses, because of the Windfall Elimination Provision (WEP). So, for someone like me, an AFP is just throwing money away. The only benefit is that it's cheaper than US Social Security, so I'm throwing away less.
“Now it’s conspiracy – they’ve made that something that should not even be entertained for a minute, that powerful people might get together and have a plan. Doesn’t happen, you’re a kook, you’re a conspiracy buff!” – George Carlin

frozen-north
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Re: AFP: Opening the black box

Post by frozen-north » Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:10 pm

If the AFPs were so good, How come the military made sure they did not join them?
Chilean military that implemented the new AFP system excluded themselves from it keeping obtaining their pensions from the Caja de Previsión de la Defensa Nacional. The pensions of the military are substantially higher than those of the rest of Chileans, being most often similar to the income they have during active service.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pensions_in_Chile

thisisreallycomplicated
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Re: AFP: Opening the black box

Post by thisisreallycomplicated » Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:49 pm

admin wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:24 am
If the global sysyem is going to be run on "free markets", regardless if you like that or not, it assumes everyone at least should understand the game they are forced to play.
Imagine if cows and chickens understood the game they're forced to play.
“Now it’s conspiracy – they’ve made that something that should not even be entertained for a minute, that powerful people might get together and have a plan. Doesn’t happen, you’re a kook, you’re a conspiracy buff!” – George Carlin

thisisreallycomplicated
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Posts: 1925
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Re: AFP: Opening the black box

Post by thisisreallycomplicated » Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:04 pm

thisisreallycomplicated wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:49 pm
admin wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:24 am
If the global sysyem is going to be run on "free markets", regardless if you like that or not, it assumes everyone at least should understand the game they are forced to play.
Imagine if cows and chickens understood the game they're forced to play.
I just saw this article on ZH a few minutes ago:
"The Pension Crisis Is Bigger Than The World’s 20 Largest Economies "
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-09- ... -economies

And it says this:
But more importantly, this should give you a hint of how the government views you… Much like a dairy cow. Not enough milk? Breed more cows!
Either I'm psychic (this kind of thing happens to me a lot), or surveillance software is getting pretty sophisticated. :shock:
“Now it’s conspiracy – they’ve made that something that should not even be entertained for a minute, that powerful people might get together and have a plan. Doesn’t happen, you’re a kook, you’re a conspiracy buff!” – George Carlin

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Re: AFP: Opening the black box

Post by admin » Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:57 am

Yea exactly why goverments need to have absulute minum involvment in maneging pension systems and investment decisions. The chilean one is getting crap returns, exactly because the chilean goverment is mandating crappy investment mixes of things like bonds and low growth stocks.

A 20 year old should not be investing for retirment in goverment bonds that have 0 to negative interest rates, the same way say some one that is 60 years old might (not sure anyone should be in those). There are some basic rules of retirment investing that we know are wrong, that are still hard coded in to the afp regulations and the manegers in chile seem to still subscribe to.

Goverments have proven repeatedly to fail at it, if not out right raid the pensions. Goverment run pensions are nothing but pyramid scheme that would be illegal if it was not the goverment doing it.

Is the u.s. SS system even going to make it to 100 years? I doubt it, and that has been one of oldest still functioning goverment pension systems in history.

If you want to argue for a universal minium income, just say it; but, don't try to smuggle it in under a pension system that robs everyone of a retirment. I am actuelly not totally against a universal income, if the books can be balanced in a sustainable manner. So far no one has really been able to do that.

Great, goverment should mandate that people save for retirment, and provide incentives to do it (other wise most people wont), but then provide options for doing it. The u.s. 401k, for those that have the option, is a model that gets employers and employees matching savings with a whole universe of investment options. Same with IRA (chile sort of has an ira account option), only without the employer match. A combination of both, would get the pension system in chile growing. Leave the afp system as a conservative back stop.

But, the goverment setting hard coded rules about what to invest in is a recipe for disaster. That is literally taking investment advice from a group of people's whos job it is to loose money, or at least most are not good at managing it.

Meanwhile, i have my eye on retirment investing that focuses on all these people that are retiring. The most obvious opertunities, will be in things related to the complete blow out of goverment debt around the world and the social chaose that follows.

20 years. That is all we got. Generiously. The u.s. is probably more like 10 years, and historians will look back and probably say it has already started with massive wave of baby boomers retiring.

After that, the complete implosion of the global financial system as all that debt comes home to roost. Who gets screwed first? Obviously the retired. Who gets screwed second, the workers as they never get to see any money. But it is bigger than that. The consumerism economy we built, has to colapse as there is no more money, jobs, etc. We can still produce crap, via automation; just most of the pop can not afford it.

So, even the rich get screwed eventualy with this scheme.

You know what is interesting about all the above?

I just mostly described the causes of the great depression. Too much money, in too few hands, over producing crap for people that can not afford to buy it.

Let's see if 2029, turns out any diffrent than 1929.
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