Amazon Web Services has chosen Argentina... NOT!!!

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at46
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Amazon Web Services has chosen Argentina... NOT!!!

Post by at46 » Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:40 pm

Looks like Amazon is choosing Chile over Argies for the data center. One billion dollar investment is coming to Chile, yum!

http://www.elmercurio.com/inversiones/n ... ional.aspx

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Re: Amazon Web Services has chosen Argentina... NOT!!!

Post by admin » Sun Jul 01, 2018 11:35 am

First, i knew they were never going to go with argentina. Some executive just got sucked in to the imvestment b.s. argetina has been pushing. The recent implosion probably seperate that exec from their job.

I also have my doubts about the viability of a data center in chile. They a) need lots of cheap energy b) need a large pool of real tech people.

Think those are both solviable, but neither as fast i am sure as whomever is blowning smoke up amazons rear says it is.
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Re: Amazon Web Services has chosen Argentina... NOT!!!

Post by Space Cat » Sun Jul 01, 2018 11:54 am

From my observations, there is a significant pool of "real" tech people if you pay the "real" salaries that match the global market. Otherwise, they're just outsourcing and freelancing to the US.

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Re: Amazon Web Services has chosen Argentina... NOT!!!

Post by nwdiver » Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:43 pm

Hardware people on site, most electron pushers off site.......the new port has a large investment going into a coastal LNG power plant, without the dams in the south Chile is dependent on imported LNG......so energy is easily solved....
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Re: Amazon Web Services has chosen Argentina... NOT!!!

Post by admin » Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:16 am

Space Cat wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 11:54 am
From my observations, there is a significant pool of "real" tech people if you pay the "real" salaries that match the global market. Otherwise, they're just outsourcing and freelancing to the US.
Yea, just about every time i start thinking that, i run in to the shocking ignorance and lack of education / training of most of the people working in the IT industry here. It is no better now, and some cases even worse, than when i arrived in chile.

Here is a recent one, in a commercial install in an office we are opening santiago from one of the largest isp in the country (and none of the others were any better):

Not knowing what a static IP is.

Not knowing what a dropped packet is.

Not knowing the chinese router they brought us was backdoored by the chinese goverment (like not even well hidden, 10 seconds on google gave up the hard coded administrative passwords and the adress of the company in hong kong that it talks to that is owned by the chinese goverment).

Being told that because we were a comercial location, we had to buy computers with windows pro licenses regardless if we used windows on the computers or not. Never mind it had absulutly nothing to do with the network. In the past i have morons tell me that their internet would only work with windows. Really?

Being told it was impossible to install fiber optic, even though i can look out the window and see the junction box for the building and the national backbone runs down the street in front of us. Never mind it was a new building with a fiber drop in the utility closet outside the door.

Being told that we had to pay over a million a month to have an internet connection that carries less data than my cell phone plan because we are an office, and pay by the mb for all additional data. Essential, they tried to charge us over 5 million pesos a month, with an obligatory 5 year contract. This is the same fiber optic connection, with unlimited data, in our other office we pay 40,000 pesos a month.

After expressly instructing them to not install any wifi routers in our office, looking me straight in the eye and telling me they did not install any wifi routers, i show them my phone. they finish the install, are getting ready to leave, i pull out my phone that has an app to scan for wifi signal strength, and there are three active wifi routers in the office. Worse, one of them is jumping channels on its own every few mins to occuppy my own routers channel and interfearing with it.

The kicker, they hard wired the entire phone system, spending a day drilling holes through all our new walls and pulling cat5 cable, and there were zero devices that required wifi. Of course none of the morons know how disable the wifi on all those chinese black boxes.

I ended up building an entire network around their mess, to secure and firewall their crappy, insecure, unstable system (yep, the dns did not work, they assigned the wrong private adress block, etc, etc). All the phones they install have cat5 jacks, so anyone could just walk up and plug in.

I ended up ripping out all the unsecured network jacks with a pair of pliers on all the phones, and shorting all the wifi untenas on the routers myself, just to make their nice new network kind of sort of secure. I quit waisting my time trying explain to the moron millenials what was wrong with what they just did. I firewalled / quarintined it as if it was out in the wild and not an internal newtwork.

Not the installers, not their boss, not the commercial support people the sales people, could wrap their heads around the idea that we are law firm and security might be an issue the way they installed that network (just closed my eyes to the crappy low quality hardware they used).

And before anyone thinks, "well that is typical when they did my home install", we had a direct line to the companies legal department because one of the lawyers was a friend. He could not find anyone in the company that knew how to do a basic, stable, and secure 101 networking install. I could of hired a bunch monkeys, because all these guys were doing was monkey see, monkey do install. They had no clue how networks worked, how the haprdware worked, let alone anything related to security, stability, for a comercial install. Hell i was not convinced they even knew what the internet was. They probably think their facebook page is the internet.

Sorry, whatever those guys were being paid, it was way, way, way too much. None if them had any biz being in the IT biz.

Pretty sure Amazon is going to be bringing their own it people.
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Re: Amazon Web Services has chosen Argentina... NOT!!!

Post by Space Cat » Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:13 am

Was it Telefónica del Sur? We had horrible experience with VTR and their technicians but then switched to Telefónica and it has been almost flawless for 3 years.

I’ve seen many good software developers working remotely from here, but the sysadmin types are probably all in Santiago because of the lame southern salaries. We couldn't find any decent sysadmin in the whole city a year ago except for a semi-decent Santiago transplant.

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Re: Amazon Web Services has chosen Argentina... NOT!!!

Post by mem » Tue Jul 03, 2018 6:25 pm

Yes, I think Chile could be one of the best places for companies to setup datacenters, even if its just a disaster recovery datacenter. The thing that seems to trip people up is the fear of earthquakes. Living far inland, I am less worried about earthquakes here than I was in the US. In the US a 6+ can be devastating, like loma prieta. But here we dont even get out of bed for a 6. Then there is the fear of volcanos as well. Outside of the big cities, which already have datacenters to some extent, I think there should be datacenters in the inland country area, such as Caburgua, Curacautin, or Melipeuco. Melipeuco, not so much, but Caburgua and Curacautin are well away from any volcano/lahar risk. Then the datacenter just need to be built with modern earthquake resistant methods.

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Re: Amazon Web Services has chosen Argentina... NOT!!!

Post by admin » Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:34 pm

I gave some thought years ago to building a data center in chile. Decided i had better things to do, but gave it some thought.

Assuming you can find some one to plug in wires correctly, i would build a data center probably on the central coast or up north. where the south american backbone fiber makes land fall.

Would then look for something sufficiently sunny to provide for solar power / wind (or some other renewable source), with main line backups, and so on.

As data centers need coolling, go underground. Google at one point was pushing data centers in floating barges, which would be a great solution if you could get wave energy working cheaply.

Earthquakes and volcanoes i dont even think would be that big of consideration beyond outside infrastructure damage, but no one builds a major data center in isolation without failover somewhere else in the world.

Spending money over engineering a building for a 9.0 is a waist of money. Google many years ago had a data center catch on fire. The distributed nature of the machines allowed the machines to continue serving data while the fire department was flooding the room with water. Much cheaper and more reliable to solve such problems with software.
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Re: Amazon Web Services has chosen Argentina... NOT!!!

Post by nwdiver » Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:07 pm

Some people......I know looked at an played out mine in the north as a potential site for a data centre partially because it had a resentlly upgraded working power station from its mining days as a backup.......
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Re: Amazon Web Services has chosen Argentina... NOT!!!

Post by admin » Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:34 am

Yea i just can not see doing it without some source of renewable / independent power supply. Which means scale to justify that upfront cost. The price of eletric needs to come down a lot in chile otherwise.

I dont think you need to get too creative with the location. In fact the reach of fiber, and idealy redundant fiber from multiple providers, is probably the harder nut to crack.

This site is on a server in a data center in the states with some crazy amount of fiber backups to the backups, with blended backups to those backups. I lost track a long time ago.. You cant really do that in chile. There is basically one pipe, and that goes away if chile's international connection goes away. We all seen that back in 2010 after the earthquake.

Even more, when one of those pipes has a more ho hum but common problem like a DOS attack or whatever, there are options for switching traffic while you sort out the problems with a particular pipe.

I am sure there are a million issues that you need to have been in the trenches running a data center day in and day out for years to even see the problems with designing one for the particular problems of chile, besides the typical problems of standing up any data center.

Thus, why i believe chile simply does not have sufficient numbers of those people.

I can count on one hand, or more like two fingers, the number of systems admins i have met in chile over the years i have any respect for, and they were both fully employed with major companies in chile. I am sure amazon has the checkbook to poache those sort of people, but that also means somewhere some other critical piece of internet infrastructure is going without competent systems admins in chile.

Just look at a couple of indicators of the lack of IT people recently. A report out this week said the majority of atms in the coutry are still running windows xp. The hack and shutdown of banco de chile, that stole 10 million dollars. The scandal last year with the fake "hacker" that was working for the police. The cell networks after the 2010 earthquake were down for weeks because there were only like 6 guys in the whole country that were qualified to fix all the towers. When was the last time you heard of a major international hack orginating out of chile? On and on.

Naa, chile has a super deficit of IT people. Most are just plugging in prepackaged boxs that are suppprted remotly from somewhere else.

Hopefully just the fact amazon is here, will start atracting more IT people to chile and help fill in those gaps and change the computer culture to build some more native IT people.
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Re: Amazon Web Services has chosen Argentina... NOT!!!

Post by at46 » Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:15 pm

I don't think the pipelines are the main factor here given the potential technological breakthroughs like quantum satellite link-ups, just as an example. But there's something to be said about Chilean businesses that have internationalized in a pretty impressive way over the years. They obviously know how to make a mutually beneficial offer. I don't know of any Argentinian businesses that have gone international. I have heard Argentinians claiming that Jumbo is theirs though :). Plus low corruption and high security of Chile I think is a big plus, and the expat cost of living is probably a bit lower versus Argentina.

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Re: Amazon Web Services has chosen Argentina... NOT!!!

Post by admin » Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:08 pm

...quantum satellite link-ups...
What star trek episode was that? I thought I had seen them all.
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