Chile's Place in Latin America

Chile Investment, how to invest in Chile, what to watch out for when investing, economic issues, currency exchange in Chile, and more.
at46
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 614
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:13 pm
Location: Vancouver/Santiago

Re: Chile's Place in Latin America

Post by at46 » Sat Nov 24, 2018 1:44 pm

41southchile wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 11:02 pm
mem wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 2:18 pm
Finally some glowing press for Chile. Credit rating upgrade soon as Chile joins a global elite of trusted soveriegns.
Just made my day

https://www.euromoney.com/article/b1by3 ... dit-rating

All the nay sayers against Chile can eat crow
That is good news, now, if they can only sort out education and training opportunities as they mention in the article, that will be the icing on the cake which will make things even better.

To that end we are entering into a joint venture with the local CFT here in Llanquihue that covers the Los Lagos region. I wouldn't say the market has failed in delivering education in Chile but it certainly has a lot of shortcomings . Will see what happens and if the state can do any better .

http://www.mifuturo.cl/index.php/donde- ... ecnica-cft
I've no idea why education has become such a hot topic here at all. I mean, open the book (or youtube) and teach yourself pretty much all there is to know about anything, what's holding anyone? Or find a mentor, become an apprentice. And what about the number of uni grads who are not practicing their profession? If they got it for free and are not practicing it, wouldn't it be right for the government to get them to pay the cost?

In the Soviet Union they gave people free uni education and even paid them to go to uni, but also forced them to work several years at a government designated job after graduation as a way of covering the cost. If they didn't wanna work that job, they didn't get their diploma. I think a similar system might be useful here. Although that would require smart government functionaries who can actually plan years ahead and not just respond to cazerolasos in a knee-jerk reaction.

As it stands right now, a uni degree here only improves one's social standing, and then only slightly if they don't actually work in the profession. Why would anyone but them pay for improving their self-esteem?

What the state could do better is facilitate entry into regulated fields of foreign-qualified specialists among the new immigrants. And implement a formal apprenticeship program, with the goal of improving general workmanship in hands-on professions.

User avatar
Space Cat
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 1232
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:20 pm
Location: Valdivia

Re: Chile's Place in Latin America

Post by Space Cat » Sat Nov 24, 2018 1:54 pm

There is a system like that: our friend finishes her Spanish teacher degree for free but she has to work for three years in a public school.

Re: Internet — a lot of people people aren’t capable of self-teaching and even when they are, finding information online is a skill itself. Though it’s getting better with all these MOOCs.

at46
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 614
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:13 pm
Location: Vancouver/Santiago

Re: Chile's Place in Latin America

Post by at46 » Sat Nov 24, 2018 2:14 pm

Space Cat wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 1:54 pm
There is a system like that: our friend finishes her Spanish teacher degree for free but she has to work for three years in a public school.
I didn't know about that, that's cool. But I guess it only covers a small number of students? What do these student protesters actually want? :)

User avatar
Space Cat
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 1232
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:20 pm
Location: Valdivia

Re: Chile's Place in Latin America

Post by Space Cat » Sat Nov 24, 2018 2:43 pm

Dunno, I haven’t seen protests or discussions of the free education for a long time. I feel like everyone is fine with the results of the big protests in 2011-2013.

The interest rate for educational loans is 2% now, before it was closer to 6%. You can also apply for the grants based on your family’s income or excellence in school.

at46
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 614
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:13 pm
Location: Vancouver/Santiago

Re: Chile's Place in Latin America

Post by at46 » Sat Nov 24, 2018 7:23 pm

Space Cat wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 2:43 pm
Dunno, I haven’t seen protests or discussions of the free education for a long time. I feel like everyone is fine with the results of the big protests in 2011-2013.
Well, everyone new person I meet brings up education as a major problem in Chile but I can never get them to say what's actually wrong with it. Maybe it's just a socially safe topic for them to bitch about. Kinda like weather in Vancouver: "Oh, it's miserable out there..." :)

User avatar
Space Cat
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 1232
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:20 pm
Location: Valdivia

Re: Chile's Place in Latin America

Post by Space Cat » Sat Nov 24, 2018 7:28 pm

at46 wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 7:23 pm
Well, everyone new person I meet brings up education as a major problem in Chile but I can never get them to say what's actually wrong with it. Maybe it's just a socially safe topic for them to bitch about. Kinda like weather in Vancouver: "Oh, it's miserable out there..." :)
May be some inertia, even my graduating friends didn't know that it's more affordable nowadays. But yes, I got used that "Chile is failing at X" is a frequent conversation starter with a foreigner.

scandinavian
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 329
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 5:55 pm

Re: Chile's Place in Latin America

Post by scandinavian » Sat Nov 24, 2018 10:07 pm

at46 wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 1:44 pm
[quote=41southchile post_id=186885 time=1543024934 user_id=23998
As it stands right now, a uni degree here only improves one's social standing, and then only slightly if they don't actually work in the profession. Why would anyone but them pay for improving their self-esteem?
I disagree. Without a degree you don't stand a chance of a well paying job. Check any job advert.

In regards to educational issues, then have a look at the difference between private schools and public ones. The quality of education in public schools is abysmal in general.

at46
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 614
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:13 pm
Location: Vancouver/Santiago

Re: Chile's Place in Latin America

Post by at46 » Sat Nov 24, 2018 11:14 pm

scandinavian wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 10:07 pm
at46 wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 1:44 pm
[quote=41southchile post_id=186885 time=1543024934 user_id=23998
As it stands right now, a uni degree here only improves one's social standing, and then only slightly if they don't actually work in the profession. Why would anyone but them pay for improving their self-esteem?
I disagree. Without a degree you don't stand a chance of a well paying job. Check any job advert.
The problem is, like I said, a lot of them finish uni and never work in their profession. There's no system in place for all I know to prepare specialists for the needs of this economy and only the number that the economy can actually employ. Nobody gives a shit how many architects graduate each year because only select few will ever build anything bigger than a dog house anyway. The rest go on to work wherever happy to forget whatever they've been just taught.

Another thing is that for profit unis have a direct incentive to simplify their programs as much as possible in order to churn out as many 'specialists' as possible who actually know nothing. How many intelligent conversations did you have here with anyone on anything slightly more complex than a joint or an empanada? Sheesh, a woman-concierge, originally from Barcelona, was banging her hand on the counter just the other day begging me to help bring in some intelligent renters for her building.
scandinavian wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 10:07 pm
In regards to educational issues, then have a look at the difference between private schools and public ones. The quality of education in public schools is abysmal in general.
Oh, I know the difference. Three of the best schools in the region are within a couple of kilometers from my house with beautiful grounds and beautiful people. And there's plenty of warehouse type public schools around as well for comparison. I've no idea if there's anything that can be done about that. But the statistic I posted here recently showed that Chile actually has higher upward mobility of the population in terms of incomes than a lot of developed countries, the US being the worst. So maybe not forcing kids from early on to jump through the hoops somehow helps them to be more entrepreneurial in later life? I don't know. But the real purpose of K-12 is just to enable both parents to work and the local system does that. If the kids pick up some arithmetic in the process, which they don't... ok I should stop now :)

User avatar
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 16823
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:02 pm
Location: Frutillar, Chile
Contact:

Re: Chile's Place in Latin America

Post by admin » Sun Nov 25, 2018 8:58 am

good story along the lines of education and social mobility in chile.

we have some good friends that have two kids. one is 12 the other 19.

mom and dad come from pretty humble background. grandfather was a gas fitter with no real education. mom and dad maneged to get a university degree. dad now teaches at a local university.

well they realy busted their asses to put their kids in to one of the better private german schools. kids both are fluent in english and german. they made sure their oldest son had the chance to travel to europe in high school. he even studied in Germany for a year.

we have known them for several years, and were there when they had to make hard decisions about paying rent vs. paying tution. without the rent, they would have to move to another town. without the tuituon, there was no point in paying high rent to keep their kids in the local private school; but, they have maneged to pull it off.

oldest son decided he want to be an attorney, and he got in to a good law school.

so he calls up my wife from time to time for carreer advice. he is on speaker phone one day as they are talking about what field of law he should specialize in. he is young, still idealistic, and is a good kid with a moral compass. he wants to save the world and help poor people. good for him. get it while your young, and before you get too old and synical about the world.

as my wife and him are talking about this however, i injected my two pesos and said, "you need to specialize in an area of law that makes a boat load of money, because you owe your mother a great big house and and a new car. Preferiably one that speaks German. Then you can go save the world".

the line went silent. he knows i am right. he realy owes his mom.

that ended that conversation. we got him working a part time internship with us now. i told him when he was leaving for law school if he made it through his second year of law school, and still wanted to be a lawyer, i would give him an internship in our santiago office.

the kid has talent. he is realy smart. the kid speaks english better than me, knows computers and IT, and if he gets out of line his mother lives next door us. she was over for thanks giving dinner thursday. You can't buy that sort of leverage over an employee.

the point is, here is a case of extremely rare talent in chile, him and his family made all the right moves education wise, and although he might do pretty well on his own, there is a much higher probability without my wife and I recruiting him before he get's out of school he will spend the next 20 years as a juinor attorney in some law firm, just to be passed over for promotion by someone with better family connections. that is, if he even get's his foot in the door with a major law firm vs. having to go it alone in a single attorney private practice.

he is not the only one. We have the same thing going on with the young women attorneys that work for us. We just hired a couple young female attorneys. They were invited to apply out of the law school classes our partners teach at the University of Chile. there were about 30 that took us up on the invitation to apply, including the top in the graduating class, for just two positions. The finalist in the application process all offered to work for less than market wages that a typical law school grad of their caliber would expect to make coming out of school. why?

Because with three female senior partners, and all female staff, there is no questions about do we promote women in our firm. There is somewhere for their carreers to go after they are hired, besides a broom closet in the basement. while the other old boys club law firms in santiago are falling over themselves to just talk about how someday they might promote a women or two to partner (most probably will never do it), we are already doing it.

There is a massive untapped talent base in chile, but because of the social structure, they are still not being provided the opertunities they need to make the most of it.

Chile's GDP should be at least three times higher than what it is, if not more; simply because of the historical class structure is both passively and actively holding back the most qualified and motivated people in the country.

that is not capitalism. that is not the free market putting the best and brightest to work. That is socialism. It is a discriminatory social structure, holding them and the country back from reaching their full potential. fixing the education system os a very small step in the right direction, but more important is fixing the social structure. especialy in the private sector.

by contrast, both in the legal field and many other fields, you see people come out of the best schools in the country, with ho hum to just downright poor performance, that simply do not care because due to family connections their career sucess has already been pre-programmed. They don't care, don't need to care, and if you walk around many badly maneged companies it is often a reflection of how they are recruiting and promoting people in chile.

They need to get the socialism out of their capitalism. it is essentialy a politicaly built, far right socialist class system, undermining real free market economics from functioning correctly.
Spencer Global Chile: Legal, relocation, and Investment assistance in Chile.
For more information visit: https://www.spencerglobal.com

From USA and outside Chile dial 1-917-727-5985 (U.S.), in Chile dial 65 2 42 1024 or by cell 747 97974.

User avatar
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 16823
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:02 pm
Location: Frutillar, Chile
Contact:

Re: Chile's Place in Latin America

Post by admin » Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:28 am

well this sounds promising, and i suspect the growth in trade between china-chile and chile- usa, is a direct result of Trump's b.s. trade war.

https://www.latercera.com/pulso/noticia ... ls/417630/

now, let's see how the G-20 turns out on the other side of the speed bump this week. i think chile wins regardless, but some sort of even fake resolution to the trade war will light a fire under all emerging markets.

from that article, what is striking is just how small chile's trade is with the mercosur countries, relative to jist about everyone else in the world. again, the one of the largest trade blocks in the world should be all of south america, if we can get the politucians to stop cutting off their nose to spite their face for more than 15 mins a year.
Spencer Global Chile: Legal, relocation, and Investment assistance in Chile.
For more information visit: https://www.spencerglobal.com

From USA and outside Chile dial 1-917-727-5985 (U.S.), in Chile dial 65 2 42 1024 or by cell 747 97974.

Huelshoff
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 69
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:52 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA, USA

Re: Chile's Place in Latin America

Post by Huelshoff » Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:48 pm

admin wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 8:58 am
There is a massive untapped talent base in chile, but because of the social structure, they are still not being provided the opertunities they need to make the most of it.

Chile's GDP should be at least three times higher than what it is, if not more; simply because of the historical class structure is both passively and actively holding back the most qualified and motivated people in the country.

that is not capitalism. that is not the free market putting the best and brightest to work. That is socialism. It is a discriminatory social structure, holding them and the country back from reaching their full potential. fixing the education system os a very small step in the right direction, but more important is fixing the social structure. especialy in the private sector.

b
I wouldn't call that socialism as much as plain old elitism, with a heavy dose of patron-client relationships and misogyny. I've seen this a lot among my wife's family and friends--cousin X is related to so-and-so politician or businessperson, uncle y went to school with this or that elite. Not that its done them much good... Its amazing how the elite networks remain so closely organized in Chile over such a long time.

Cudos to you, Admin, for recognizing talent over pedigree and sex. I've long thought that there is much human talent lost to poverty and mysogny.

User avatar
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 16823
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:02 pm
Location: Frutillar, Chile
Contact:

Re: Chile's Place in Latin America

Post by admin » Fri Nov 30, 2018 3:00 pm

so as i mentioned before i was recently in argentina. the roads were so bad it led me to make some guestimates of how bad the infrastructure deficite was, considering the roads i was on had not been repaired since the last time i was there almost 10 years ago, and they were in bad shape then.

my guess was $200 billion dollar deficit.

well, seems i was pretty close. about $350 billion dollars is closer to the mark.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/worldecono ... eturn/amp/
Spencer Global Chile: Legal, relocation, and Investment assistance in Chile.
For more information visit: https://www.spencerglobal.com

From USA and outside Chile dial 1-917-727-5985 (U.S.), in Chile dial 65 2 42 1024 or by cell 747 97974.

Post Reply