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Zero Visibility

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:46 pm
by fraggle092
Something for the forum frequent fliers....incredible landing at SCL by AF 406.

https://youtu.be/1jgRUxFdnqQ

Re: Zero Visibility

Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:19 am
by admin
yea that is why all the major airports in chile are equipped with the automatic landing signal system for the auto pilot systems. cant recall what it is called. something like the ALS.


i have never seen conditions like that in Santiago, but they are almost normal in the south of chile in the winter like in puerto montt, temuco (old airport was in a river valley), etc.

i dont think i have had flight canceled or seriously delayed due to weather in years, since they installed them at all the major airports.

Re: Zero Visibility

Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:31 am
by admin
you want terrifying?

a friend was coming back from santiago on a bus. the driver was rushing to finish a 12 hour shift, layed the bus on its side going around a corner. he had his arm cut off, and watched his wife sitting next to him be decapitated. 6 dead, 40 seriously injured.

That single bus accident (and there are lot of them) had more deaths, than all the deaths on commercial flight (excluding the small planes) in chile in like the last 20 or 30 years (possibly more).

i will take my chances with the fog anytime. i dont get on buses for any reason in chile. I will drive or rent a car, if i need to get somewhere there are no flights.

Re: Zero Visibility

Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:20 am
by eeuunikkeiexpat
It was fog like that that caused my greatest flying scare of my life. LATAM Colombia plane approaching Bucaramanga airport which is located on a hill. Pilot abandoned the approach at the last moment and pulled up engines at maximum thrust till we were above the fog and clouds to return to Bogota.

Re: Zero Visibility

Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:29 pm
by admin
thise guys in the video were pushing it. think it is like 400 feet, and if they do not see the runway they have to abandon the aproach. you can hear the auto call out of altitude and you still can not see the runway.

Re: Zero Visibility

Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:30 pm
by admin
not sure it applies when the autopilot is using ALS system though.

Re: Zero Visibility

Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:03 pm
by fraggle092
Descending into Maputo airport on a LAM (the Mozambican National airline) flight on a foggy night, no airstrip lighting. Plane found the runway too soon, hit it hard with a bang and bounced back up into the air. Overhead bins bust open, oxygen masks came down. Full throttle and up we went.... Then around and down again for a second go. This time the plane overshot completely, so once again full throttle and back up. The local passengers thought that this was all great fun, but by this time the expats and the flight attendants were quite scared, me included.

Then a fateful pause while we wondered whether the pilot was going to go for a third try.....happily he didn't, we went to Johannesburg instead, where they locked us up in a lounge for the night. As a Brit passport holder, the next morning I was allowed to leave the lounge, and went to the British Airways desk, to try to buy a ticket back to London, which was my final destination anyway. But the blonde counter girl looked at me sternly and said "no, you came in on that LAM flight, you have to continue your journey to Maputo on that same flight".

Just a couple of years later, the Mozambican president died in a flight to the same airport in similar circumstances.

Re: Zero Visibility

Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:31 pm
by 41southchile
admin wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:31 am
you want terrifying?

a friend was coming back from santiago on a bus. the driver was rushing to finish a 12 hour shift, layed the bus on its side going around a corner. he had his arm cut off, and watched his wife sitting next to him be decapitated. 6 dead, 40 seriously injured.

That single bus accident (and there are lot of them) had more deaths, than all the deaths on commercial flight (excluding the small planes) in chile in like the last 20 or 30 years (possibly more).

i will take my chances with the fog anytime. i dont get on buses for any reason in chile. I will drive or rent a car, if i need to get somewhere there are no flights.
I would say just anecdotally there is probably an average of one bus crash at least once a month in Chile with more than one fatality (I can think of at least 4 or 5 this year already), I know Chile is a lot more advanced than a lot of other countries and roads are safer but flying is still way safer than buses especially long haul trips.
I guess it's all a numbers game in the end, there are a huge amount of people that travel by bus, probably just as much chance as any automobile accident , private cars and rentals can still get taken out by morons or falling asleep truck drivers.

Re: Zero Visibility

Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:29 pm
by Donnybrook
It used to be fairly common in the 90s for flights to SCL to be rerouted to Mendoza because of poor visibility. I guess they then put in the automatic whatnot. You don't hear of it now.

Re: Zero Visibility

Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:11 pm
by admin
41southchile wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:31 pm
admin wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:31 am
you want terrifying?

a friend was coming back from santiago on a bus. the driver was rushing to finish a 12 hour shift, layed the bus on its side going around a corner. he had his arm cut off, and watched his wife sitting next to him be decapitated. 6 dead, 40 seriously injured.

That single bus accident (and there are lot of them) had more deaths, than all the deaths on commercial flight (excluding the small planes) in chile in like the last 20 or 30 years (possibly more).

i will take my chances with the fog anytime. i dont get on buses for any reason in chile. I will drive or rent a car, if i need to get somewhere there are no flights.
I would say just anecdotally there is probably an average of one bus crash at least once a month in Chile with more than one fatality (I can think of at least 4 or 5 this year already), I know Chile is a lot more advanced than a lot of other countries and roads are safer but flying is still way safer than buses especially long haul trips.
I guess it's all a numbers game in the end, there are a huge amount of people that travel by bus, probably just as much chance as any automobile accident , private cars and rentals can still get taken out by morons or falling asleep truck drivers.
i don't even like driving near buses, because i have seen the drivers do just incredibly stupid crap in front of me. big trucks are dangerous to be around, but the buses seem to employ just way too many crappy drivers.

Re: Zero Visibility

Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:28 pm
by copfish
The landing system you are thinking of is the ILS (instrument landing system). Its a series of radio stations emitting signals that the plane uses to determine exactly where it is in respect to the runway. Its used in addition to VFR landings. La Serena is another airport that I've seen "socked in" for several days and they still manage to make safe landings. Technology is great most of the time.

Re: Zero Visibility

Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:04 pm
by fraggle092
In Serena some years ago, Movistar stuck up a 50 metre tall cell tower on the northern edge of the town centre, directly in the flight approach path to La Florida airport which is only 4 km away from that point. On very foggy days the top of the tower was in the mist, only barely visible despite its beacon, and I saw incoming planes literally swerving to avoid it. It was also an eyesore and some of the residents initiated a campaign to remove it. Finally it was taken down after a couple of years, but I suspect it was the aeronautical safety people who made that happen. In a sensible country, it would never have been permitted in the first place but no hay normas was the rule then, and still is afaik.