Wages for locals

General job offers and work related issues in Chile.
john
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
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Location: Viña del Mar, Chile

Re: Wages for locals

Post by john » Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:07 pm

Andres wrote:
john wrote:That's a lot of misguided people. :P
Oh, I forgot.
You are so much wiser than everyone else.
An interesting way of expressing incompatibility with representative democracy. :)
You have perverted democracy to be a dictatorship of the majority, or even a dictatorship of the minority.

Using your standard of democracy, there was nothing wrong with such actions as
+ incarcerating and stealing the property/businesses of Americans of Japanese decent during WWII
+ enslaving negro and other people in the US for centuries
+ slaughtering native americans
+ incarcerating illegal drug users
+ starting the second 'gulf war'
+ the US entering world war I based upon lies, whose result was the most direct cause of world war 2 in Europe
solely because the majority was in favour of those actions.

The list can go on and on of morally unjustifiable policies and actions which the majority agreed with.

You will denounce each of these actions as abhorrent, say you are or were not in favour of them and will (yet again) refuse to see the implications and direct consequences of your position.

Your version of 'democracy':
I have never claimed to be wiser than everyone else, just wiser than the misguided tens of millions you have referenced. :wink:

Yes, I believe I have described all of those actions as abhorrent in one or more of my posts, nor do I find any inconsistency with the views I have expressed (in many posts) regarding representative democracy. Simply put, I do not support dictatorship of the majority or the minority. For clarity's sake, suggest you review the contents of my posts regarding my definition of representative democracy.
One must care about a world one will not see.
--- Bertrand Russell

john
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 6130
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 1:11 am
Location: Viña del Mar, Chile

Re: Wages for locals

Post by john » Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:13 pm

Andres wrote:Using labels, especially inaccurate ones, are not an argument, John.
It is funny you say that, when I have caught you out numerous times as a self-contradicting, inconsistent hypocrite.
Agree that using labels is not an argument. :oops:
You often claim that, but you have consistently failed to demonstrate it. :)
One must care about a world one will not see.
--- Bertrand Russell

frozen-north
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
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Re: Wages for locals

Post by frozen-north » Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:51 pm

Andres wrote:
Using labels, especially inaccurate ones, are not an argument, John.
I don't see any difference in the way they used 'labels':

john: 'your comments were at least libertarian in tone.'

at46: 'your favorite field of socialist bdsm'

john
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 6130
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 1:11 am
Location: Viña del Mar, Chile

Re: Wages for locals

Post by john » Sun Jan 08, 2017 3:27 pm

Andres wrote:
john wrote:
Andres wrote: As a voluntarist, I do not think any immigration constraints are morally justifyable . . . but you need to get rid of socialism (like the medical system you describe) before that is a workable solution.
What about nation state sovereignty? Would that include termination of 'socialist' programs such as Social Security and Medicare?
'State sovereignty'? Did it not exist prior to 1900?
Then why was there virtually no barrier to anyone moving between countries prior to 1900?
What changed?

Regarding so-called 'social security' (which is actually the opposite and ultimately will cause insecurity) and 'medicare'. Absolutely. They are ponzi schemes which would result in any other purveyor (besides government and past or present Goldman Sachs executives) in jail.
Actually, the concept of nation-state sovereignty has been around a lot longer than that (e.g., Peace of Westphalia, circa 1648). That the definition of nation-state sovereignty has evolved over the centuries since then in no way invalidates the concept of nation-state sovereignty.
Since there was relatively little movement of people between nation-states prior to 1900 the need for immigration control was likely not deemed to be a priority.

I disagree that Social Security and Medicare are Ponzi schemes; however, I do concur that the administration of Social Security has been very badly managed. The plundering of the Social Security Trust Fund to fund other Governments programs (e.g., military spending) coupled with the refusal of Congressional Republicans to support the passing of a law to raise the maximum salary level at which SS taxes apply are the major contributors to SS insecurity.
Medicare is a relatively efficient medical insurance system when compared to the "for profit" medical insurance systems. Medicare's significantly lower overhead costs plus its ability to negotiate drug prices directly with Big Pharma are indicative of how additional medical cost reductions could be achieved via a single-paper option (i.e., Medicare of all). Oops! Silly me, I forgot that Trumpcare is going to reduce medical insurance costs through the elimination of medical insurance coverage for tens of millions of people who currently have coverage...which will, of course, negatively impact millions of Trump's working-class supporters. Also, can't wait to find out if Trumpcare will include provisions to prevent insurance companies from disallowing coverage based on pre-condition(s) and that will provide for insurance coverage for young adults (until they turn 26) under their parents' plan, as promised by Trump during the presidential campaign. :wink: :wink: :wink:
One must care about a world one will not see.
--- Bertrand Russell

at46
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 541
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:13 pm
Location: Vancouver/Santiago

Re: Wages for locals

Post by at46 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 4:50 pm

frozen-north wrote:
Andres wrote:
Using labels, especially inaccurate ones, are not an argument, John.
I don't see any difference in the way they used 'labels':

john: 'your comments were at least libertarian in tone.'

at46: 'your favorite field of socialist bdsm'
And would you not take into consideration 'who said it first'? :)

john
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 6130
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 1:11 am
Location: Viña del Mar, Chile

Re: Wages for locals

Post by john » Sun Jan 08, 2017 4:52 pm

at46 wrote:
frozen-north wrote:
Andres wrote:
Using labels, especially inaccurate ones, are not an argument, John.
I don't see any difference in the way they used 'labels':

john: 'your comments were at least libertarian in tone.'

at46: 'your favorite field of socialist bdsm'
And would you not take into consideration 'who said it first'? :)
I own up, Andres did! :lol:
One must care about a world one will not see.
--- Bertrand Russell

at46
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 541
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Location: Vancouver/Santiago

Re: Wages for locals

Post by at46 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:02 pm

john wrote:
at46 wrote:
john wrote:
at46 wrote:
john wrote: Unadulterated Randian nonsense!
I think I'll just shrug off that uncalled for classification :) Also, I know you've had trouble in your bromance with Andres, but I sincerely hope you guys can work it out.
your comments were at least libertarian in tone. :) Nothing to work out...Andres is a "glutton for punishment". :wink:
Another uncalled for classification. I can see it's hard for you to think of people without applying the few defined roles from your favorite field of socialist bdsm. But you just have to accept it's a very acquired taste and not everyone shares your enthrallment with it.
I'm not calling you a libertarian, but the comments you made are libertarian points of view.
So you're not calling me, but you kinda are. When somebody cries out "Fire!" do you go 'Oh, that's an example of free speech and a cry for help!'? :)
john wrote:That's the first time I've been identified with bondage. :lol: I try to respond directly to comments made, wherever that may lead. :)
Sorry, John, I'm busy tonight.

Andres
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Location: in transit

Re: Wages for locals

Post by Andres » Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:18 pm

john wrote:Actually, the concept of nation-state sovereignty has been around a lot longer than that (e.g., Peace of Westphalia, circa 1648).
You misunderstood the expression "was there not?"
That is my point. Sovereignty existed before 1900 despite the lack of population movement controls.
I disagree that Social Security and Medicare are Ponzi schemes
Of course you do.
Chile: My expectations are low. Very low.
I accept chaos. I'm not sure whether it accepts me.

john
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 6130
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 1:11 am
Location: Viña del Mar, Chile

Re: Wages for locals

Post by john » Sun Jan 08, 2017 6:06 pm

at46 wrote:
john wrote:
at46 wrote:
john wrote:
at46 wrote:
john wrote: Unadulterated Randian nonsense!
I think I'll just shrug off that uncalled for classification :) Also, I know you've had trouble in your bromance with Andres, but I sincerely hope you guys can work it out.
your comments were at least libertarian in tone. :) Nothing to work out...Andres is a "glutton for punishment". :wink:
Another uncalled for classification. I can see it's hard for you to think of people without applying the few defined roles from your favorite field of socialist bdsm. But you just have to accept it's a very acquired taste and not everyone shares your enthrallment with it.
I'm not calling you a libertarian, but the comments you made are libertarian points of view.
So you're not calling me, but you kinda are. When somebody cries out "Fire!" do you go 'Oh, that's an example of free speech and a cry for help!'? :)
john wrote:That's the first time I've been identified with bondage. :lol: I try to respond directly to comments made, wherever that may lead. :)
Sorry, John, I'm busy tonight.
If I heard someone cry "Fire" in a theatre I would immediately yell back, "Free speech be damned", "I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt", while immediately proceeding to the exit :wink: I'm curious though, you seem reluctant to acknowledge that the comments you made were indeed of a libertarian point of view? :)

Phew! So glad to hear you are busy tonight. :lol:
One must care about a world one will not see.
--- Bertrand Russell

john
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
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Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 1:11 am
Location: Viña del Mar, Chile

Re: Wages for locals

Post by john » Sun Jan 08, 2017 6:16 pm

Andres wrote: You misunderstood the expression "was there not?"
That is my point. Sovereignty existed before 1900 despite the lack of population movement controls.
I disagree that Social Security and Medicare are Ponzi schemes [/quote]
Of course you do.[/quote]

You are correct, I did misunderstand. :oops:

I have already surmised that population movement controls were probably not deemed necessary because the flow of people between nation-states prior to 1900 was relatively insignificant. However, it is my contention that the magnitude of people movement today (as evidenced by the difficulties currently being faced by some countries in attempting to accommodate the incoming flow of people) does not bode well for the on-going preservation of nation-state sovereignty, absent implementation of applicable population movement control measures.

Yes, I do and I stand by my reasoning for why I believe they are not Ponzi schemes.
One must care about a world one will not see.
--- Bertrand Russell

at46
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 541
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Location: Vancouver/Santiago

Re: Wages for locals

Post by at46 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 7:07 pm

john wrote:I'm curious though, you seem reluctant to acknowledge that the comments you made were indeed of a libertarian point of view? :)
What's with your obsession with labels? Stop fighting the windmills.
john wrote:Phew! So glad to hear you are busy tonight. :lol:
Oh, don't be like that. You'll find someone :)
Image

john
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 6130
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 1:11 am
Location: Viña del Mar, Chile

Re: Wages for locals

Post by john » Sun Jan 08, 2017 7:48 pm

at46 wrote:
john wrote:I'm curious though, you seem reluctant to acknowledge that the comments you made were indeed of a libertarian point of view? :)
What's with your obsession with labels? Stop fighting the windmills.
john wrote:Phew! So glad to hear you are busy tonight. :lol:
Oh, don't be like that. You'll find someone :)
Image
I'll take that as a yes. :) That's because I identify with the chivalric exploits of Don Quixote. :wink:

No thanks, I prefer to vicariously engage in such peccadillos from the comfort and safety of my own balcony. :) But will be sooo glad when the exodus takes place at the end of February. :wink:
One must care about a world one will not see.
--- Bertrand Russell

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