CRAZY PHONE CALLS, and THE CHILEAN MAIL

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Re: CRAZY PHONE CALLS, and THE CHILEAN MAIL

Post by 41southchile » Wed Jan 01, 2020 3:31 pm

Jamers41 wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 1:28 pm
Great stories......if not also a bit sad and disturbing.
Jajaja yeah it is quite sad and disturbing, I used to work in customer service for a cable/internet phone company, and a taxi driver in my younger days. I seriously used to question how many many people in society functioned everyday with the interactions I had with people.
I guess survival is instinctive as was mentioned earlier, but seriously I lost a lot of faith in humanity during those years and that's why I went back to working with animals 🤣🤔
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Re: CRAZY PHONE CALLS, and THE CHILEAN MAIL

Post by hlf2888 » Wed Jan 01, 2020 5:50 pm

[/quote]

I guess survival is instinctive as was mentioned earlier, but seriously I lost a lot of faith in humanity during those years and that's why I went back to working with animals 🤣🤔
[/quote]

I prefer them to people, less complicated, more honest, much more noble and they love without a truckload of conditions. The only thing they are not good at is sitting on the porch at night sharing stories. That requires a human but most of them aren't worth all the compromises they expect and the conditions they bring. And humans are fickle, like cats. Dogs are steadfast, as are horses.

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Re: CRAZY PHONE CALLS, and THE CHILEAN MAIL

Post by admin » Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:58 am

I have more than a few pet theories as to why there are so many mentally ill, especially in the united states. The biggest one, It is the way the fields of psychiatry and psychology have been practiced.

It does not need to be this way. Most of these people are fixable, we just got the wrong (or at least under qualified) mechanics working on our engines.

The fields of psychology and psychiatry have been around, in some form or another, for about 150 years (mas o menos), and really they have not advanced at all. They like to pretend they have, but not really. They are really still using just leaches and witchcraft.

I spent around 12 years, undergrad and grad school, studying philosophy of mind, language, and artificial intelligence. You would think classes in that field would attract even just a few physiatrist or psychologist; even if it was just a bit of curiosity from people working in those fields. At least in relevant things like classes titled "philosophy of psychology" or "philosophy of science" or "logic". Never mind things like "philosophy of mind", "AI", etc. I mean philosophers have been going at this subject for over a 1,000 years. We got all sorts of computer scientists, neurologist, other sorts of medical professionals bouncing in and out of our department. Especially as AI became a hot topic. we had just about every other field of science, but not those.

In 12 years, I think I met two or three psychology students in those classes, and then only in "philosophy of psychology" (examining the origins and justification of the very field) and they all dropped the class within a week or two.

we use to joke that psychology was one of those odd fields that the more incompetent you are (i.e. not fixing people), the more money you make.

but, it does not have to be this way. we have the technology to fix the vast majority of these people. I highly recommend everyone take the time to watch this lecture by this psychiatrist about his work with functional brain scans, and what he learned from over 83,000 scans. It is real eye opener:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FTtKpBGjxd8

He at one point says physiatrist and psychologist are the only medical professionals that do not look at the organ they are fixing or working on; and, they are as a profession, extremely hostile to the idea of looking at it. Does that make any sense at all?

You would think before prescribing a p ill, especially something like a super powerful antipsychotic, you might have a quick peak under the hood to see what is going on.

It is like you go to a mechanic and say, "my car is not running well", and the mechanic tells you, just looking at the car parked from the outside and listening to it run, with no further investigation, "well obviously you need a new engine and transmission".

That truly is batshit crazy.
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Re: CRAZY PHONE CALLS, and THE CHILEAN MAIL

Post by hlf2888 » Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:18 pm

admin wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:58 am
I have more than a few pet theories as to why there are so many mentally ill, especially in the united states. The biggest one, It is the way the fields of psychiatry and psychology have been practiced.

It does not need to be this way. Most of these people are fixable, we just got the wrong (or at least under qualified) mechanics working on our engines.

The fields of psychology and psychiatry have been around, in some form or another, for about 150 years (mas o menos), and really they have not advanced at all. They like to pretend they have, but not really. They are really still using just leaches and witchcraft.

I have a couple of theories.


1) The insane are a magnified personification of the culture. When the culture is hypo-violent, there are more mass murderers. People who kill for the joy of killing. The US is an excellent example.

2) It is hard work to stay sane in an insane world. A world where millions starve while some spend thousands of dollars on one meal. A world where nations slaughter nations over invisible lines in the sand. A world where cultures destroy cultures in the name of their invisible friend in the sky. It requires a lot of filtering to not become overwhelmed. Most of us have the necessary number of filters. Those who don't either find refuge in a substance haze or are called insane as they act out their perception of the nightmare.

3) Psychiatry and psychology are stodgy ineffective practices, I agree, similar to witchcraft. I theorize a lot of insanity is the loss of connection to others. Studies have shown that hallucinogens can re-establish that connection to others but in a corporate world run by big Pharma and prisons for profit, legalizing hallucinogens has a lot of resistance.

4) Some insanity (forms of schizophrenia) could be environmentally related. I noticed while living in New York that most of the schizophrenics that I met were from Long Island and in a similar age bracket.

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Re: CRAZY PHONE CALLS, and THE CHILEAN MAIL

Post by thisisreallycomplicated » Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:41 pm

hlf2888 wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:18 pm
4) Some insanity (forms of schizophrenia) could be environmentally related.
I suspect a lot of these problems are nutritional
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Re: CRAZY PHONE CALLS, and THE CHILEAN MAIL

Post by PXYC » Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:50 pm

admin wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:58 am
I have more than a few pet theories as to why there are so many mentally ill, especially in the united states. The biggest one, It is the way the fields of psychiatry and psychology have been practiced.

It does not need to be this way. Most of these people are fixable, we just got the wrong (or at least under qualified) mechanics working on our engines.

The fields of psychology and psychiatry have been around, in some form or another, for about 150 years (mas o menos), and really they have not advanced at all. They like to pretend they have, but not really. They are really still using just leaches and witchcraft.

I spent around 12 years, undergrad and grad school, studying philosophy of mind, language, and artificial intelligence. You would think classes in that field would attract even just a few physiatrist or psychologist; even if it was just a bit of curiosity from people working in those fields. At least in relevant things like classes titled "philosophy of psychology" or "philosophy of science" or "logic". Never mind things like "philosophy of mind", "AI", etc. I mean philosophers have been going at this subject for over a 1,000 years. We got all sorts of computer scientists, neurologist, other sorts of medical professionals bouncing in and out of our department. Especially as AI became a hot topic. we had just about every other field of science, but not those.

In 12 years, I think I met two or three psychology students in those classes, and then only in "philosophy of psychology" (examining the origins and justification of the very field) and they all dropped the class within a week or two.

we use to joke that psychology was one of those odd fields that the more incompetent you are (i.e. not fixing people), the more money you make.

but, it does not have to be this way. we have the technology to fix the vast majority of these people. I highly recommend everyone take the time to watch this lecture by this psychiatrist about his work with functional brain scans, and what he learned from over 83,000 scans. It is real eye opener:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FTtKpBGjxd8

He at one point says physiatrist and psychologist are the only medical professionals that do not look at the organ they are fixing or working on; and, they are as a profession, extremely hostile to the idea of looking at it. Does that make any sense at all?

You would think before prescribing a p ill, especially something like a super powerful antipsychotic, you might have a quick peak under the hood to see what is going on.

It is like you go to a mechanic and say, "my car is not running well", and the mechanic tells you, just looking at the car parked from the outside and listening to it run, with no further investigation, "well obviously you need a new engine and transmission".

That truly is batshit crazy.
My best friend/ex-roomie is a psychiatrist, so after learning a thing or two here my 2 cents on some of your observations:

- Saying those fields have not evolved much on the last 150 years is just a provocation, right? C'mom.. just to mention the obvious, our capitalist society is highly competitive and demands evolution, and since those fields are a paid product/service, they had no other choice than to evolve. I promisse that if you compare the molecules used by labs to create medication prescribed for psych/mental problems, they have changed a lot.. on the last 10 years alone.

- I can understand why you say therapists should study philosophy. But except for meaning the therapist would more likely be a brainy intelligent person (there is nothing I can imagine to be more tragic than the therapist being dumber than the patient ahah), you don't need to have separate philosophy studies to be a good therapist/doctor, in fact those areas already have some philosophy included since the biggest names of the last 150 years of the psych science have always dialogued with their philosopher pairs (Lacan and Sartre, etc).

- Saying that psychiatrics don't study the brain is quite an ignorant thing to say. There are different branches in the field and one of those is the neuronal. Ok, most doctors find this to be terribly boring, as it leads you more to an academic/lab path than to actually treating patients. Because treating patients and research is a different thing. The truth is, if you are treating patients, you make a diagnosis based on what you have learned and apply the best therapy the science has provided so far, and then monitor and tune treatments - this method applies to mental issues as to any other non-mental medicine issue really. If you go to your doctor with a chest pain no one is going to research your chest, they will just aplly already proven theories and methods to diagnose and treat you.

I hope the new areas you mention are new opportunities for science (I have no objection there), just wanted to reject some of your other fundaments :)
Not saying there are no bad practicioners, I just don't agree with your generalizations.

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Re: CRAZY PHONE CALLS, and THE CHILEAN MAIL

Post by PXYC » Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:56 pm

hlf2888 wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:18 pm

3) Psychiatry and psychology are stodgy ineffective practices, I agree, similar to witchcraft. I theorize a lot of insanity is the loss of connection to others. Studies have shown that hallucinogens can re-establish that connection to others but in a corporate world run by big Pharma and prisons for profit, legalizing hallucinogens has a lot of resistance.
:shock: :shock:

Really? Witchcraft??
I have a chilean psychiatrist friend that has just finished her magister on UK studiyng the effect of natural drugs prescription (mainly mushroom micro dosing) as a therapy. And you bet pharmaceuticals are looking into those study, just google how much they are already profiting with marijuana medicinal products.

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Re: CRAZY PHONE CALLS, and THE CHILEAN MAIL

Post by PXYC » Thu Jan 02, 2020 2:10 pm

Well, probably you'll make fun of me trying to sell my friends services, but here I'll go selling their services lol:

if anyone reading this might want the services of a psychatrist in Santiago, english speaking, I know some that seem to me interested scientists (as per all the boring conversations I've heard between them at social gatherings) and empathic human beings.
Just query me by private message.

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Re: CRAZY PHONE CALLS, and THE CHILEAN MAIL

Post by hlf2888 » Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:15 pm

PXYC wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:56 pm
hlf2888 wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:18 pm

3) Psychiatry and psychology are stodgy ineffective practices, I agree, similar to witchcraft. I theorize a lot of insanity is the loss of connection to others. Studies have shown that hallucinogens can re-establish that connection to others but in a corporate world run by big Pharma and prisons for profit, legalizing hallucinogens has a lot of resistance.
:shock: :shock:

Really? Witchcraft??
I have a chilean psychiatrist friend that has just finished her magister on UK studiyng the effect of natural drugs prescription (mainly mushroom micro dosing) as a therapy. And you bet pharmaceuticals are looking into those study, just google how much they are already profiting with marijuana medicinal products.
If we didn't live in such a corporate-run world these "natural" drugs would have been used long ago, but since they couldn't be patented, the corporate-run world had them declared illegal. Now there is too much compelling evidence of their healing properties to continue the suppression of their benefits.

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Re: CRAZY PHONE CALLS, and THE CHILEAN MAIL

Post by PXYC » Thu Jan 02, 2020 5:36 pm

hlf2888 wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:15 pm
PXYC wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:56 pm
hlf2888 wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:18 pm

3) Psychiatry and psychology are stodgy ineffective practices, I agree, similar to witchcraft. I theorize a lot of insanity is the loss of connection to others. Studies have shown that hallucinogens can re-establish that connection to others but in a corporate world run by big Pharma and prisons for profit, legalizing hallucinogens has a lot of resistance.
:shock: :shock:

Really? Witchcraft??
I have a chilean psychiatrist friend that has just finished her magister on UK studiyng the effect of natural drugs prescription (mainly mushroom micro dosing) as a therapy. And you bet pharmaceuticals are looking into those study, just google how much they are already profiting with marijuana medicinal products.
If we didn't live in such a corporate-run world these "natural" drugs would have been used long ago, but since they couldn't be patented, the corporate-run world had them declared illegal. Now there is too much compelling evidence of their healing properties to continue the suppression of their benefits.
Hmm well.. there are benefits but also reasons for their supression, such as: public health safety. Natural as they could be, if you take too much and get psychotic or too delirious, you could hurt yourself or others. It is a difficult balance, I'm not sure myself.

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Re: CRAZY PHONE CALLS, and THE CHILEAN MAIL

Post by admin » Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:59 pm

We could go on debating the wonders of modern psychiatry for another 150 years.

Meanwhile, I just thought of another crazy story. Not so much a story, as a category of clients we get.

Category: People or companies that hire us. Sign our contract. Actually pay us. We are ready, willing, and able to do their work, and then they disappear without a trace.

We never hear from them again. nothing.

On some level, this is almost crazier.

I am not talking about people that change their minds, or life get's busy, and they like disappear for a while, then get back in touch. That happens all the time.

Talking totally MIA.

The first few times it happened, we spent an enormous amount of time and money trying to track people down to give them their money back. But, I discovered, often at the point when they disappear without a trace, we had not even gotten sufficiently in to knowing them and collecting information, to even have say a phone number, and address, etc. They don't answer their email. Simply no way to reach them. Sometimes, I don't even know what country to start looking for them in.

Now this category breaks down in to two types from there. Those that do ultimately get back in touch with us, often many many years later. The other, is the people we have never had contact again from.

The first time it happened I thought it was fluke. People are strange.

Then it happened again, and again.

It got to the point, I had to put a clear clauses in our service contract, regarding when funds are considered abandoned. One year after we receive them, and there is no contact or reason for us to have them, they are considered abandoned. Cost of maintaining the funds. That simple. Even then, I have soft policy, if they get back to us within two possibly three years, to extend them credit for services, at least to against whatever we are charging for those services years later.

Now, from time to time, we have clients money stuck in our accounts for one reason or another; but, we know why we have the funds and the client knows why we have the funds, and we are talking to them about it. For example, a real estate purchase that get's hung-up for a while in bureaucracy before it closes. That is fine. All very normal.

I often wonder, how many are dead. Like they got hit by a bus, the moment they sent the funds.

Well, I kind of shrugged my shoulders, and figured well someday they will reach out to us.

Then some guy got back in touch with us, 5 years after the fact, and not only wants his money back but interest. We had an easy twice the time in what he paid us, in just trying to track him down. Told him, no way dude; but, even that guy I was like I will give you credit for what you payed, against our current fees, if you want to go forward with the project. I am not going to provide services, at a 5 year old, or 10 year old rate. We would not be in business very long.

We are not a bank. In fact, we can not receive funds from people legally, without a clear reason for having those funds. Otherwise, we just look like money launders to the authorities; but, on the other hand I am not spending more time and resources, taking care of their money, and trying to return it to them, than we were paid for the original work in the first place. Not even banks do that.

Even after I put that big warning in our contract, people keep doing it. Now, it is not every day, but like once a year it happens; but, every year there is at least one of them.

There is one sub-catagory, of that category, that sort of makes sense: big multinational companies. More than once, we have been hired by companies to do something, they paid, and then we never hear back from them. So, we try to contact them. We finally get in touch with someone. They tell us the guy or whomever was fired, quit, moved, something. I am like o.k., "we would like refund your money or at least complete the work we were hired to do, who is in charge of that now"?

Guess what they say?

The people we get in touch with, often want nothing to do with it. They are like, "sorry, that was his or her problem, and I am not taking responsibility for that project or that money".

Really? You don't want to take the money back? They are like, no. They don't want anything to do with it.

It would probably be an even bigger problem, if we dealt with governments (we don't do government work).

People are strange, when your a stranger.

I guess in the grand scheme of business problems, that is not the worse problem to have.
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Re: CRAZY PHONE CALLS, and THE CHILEAN MAIL

Post by tiagoabner » Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:28 pm

admin wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:59 pm
There is one sub-catagory, of that category, that sort of makes sense: big multinational companies. More than once, we have been hired by companies to do something, they paid, and then we never hear back from them. So, we try to contact them. We finally get in touch with someone. They tell us the guy or whomever was fired, quit, moved, something. I am like o.k., "we would like refund your money or at least complete the work we were hired to do, who is in charge of that now"?

Guess what they say?

The people we get in touch with, often want nothing to do with it. They are like, "sorry, that was his or her problem, and I am not taking responsibility for that project or that money".
To be fair, they're absolutely right in the sense that they're covering their own asses. The person immediately above the person that got fired/left was the one that should've contacted you to get the funds back. If they didn't (and the amount wasn't small enough to be written off), you most likely don't want them as clients.

More on topic, is there any common theme on the calls regarding Correos de Chile? I mean, there must be a reason for them to be calling you about them.
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