Where Should I Start?

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Sr. El Puelche
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Re: Where Should I Start?

Post by Sr. El Puelche » Sun Sep 15, 2019 8:08 pm

Haaa-----never said anything about Trump or really anything US related----except for the complete ineptitude of the US Country reports. Maybe come up with something solid to say so it can be viewed and discussed tit for tat.

Just relating what I saw as I saw it, maybe if you did that you would have an argument for what you have seen. Just throwing darts is not going to do it-----if you have a position beyond little quips lets hear it-----I invite you to share------I advise you to bring your best game as I bring mine-----not much in Chile I did not see or hear first hand.

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Putenio
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Re: Where Should I Start?

Post by Putenio » Sun Sep 15, 2019 8:58 pm

SCL wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 8:02 pm
Uf.... another successful graduate from Trump University, Latin-American Studies Dept...
Is this another personal attack that contributes nothing to the conversation?

I perceive it as just troll bait. If you don't like the point, fact, or perspective - why not present a coherent argument to the contrary? I've never understood why people, masked at a distance, vent and attack in ways that don't contribute constructively to a conversation.
Enjoying the beautiful southern peninsula of Puerto Montt in the heart of it all.
Tenio Natural Reserve: http://www.visitsouthernchile.blogspot.com

frozen-north
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Re: Where Should I Start?

Post by frozen-north » Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:39 am

SCL wrote:
Uf.... another successful graduate from Trump University, Latin-American Studies Dept...
El Puelche wrote:
Haaa-----never said anything about Trump ....
The school of 'alternative facts'.

Allende .... chose to shoot himself with a gold plated ak 47
Gold plated?

frozen-north
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Re: Where Should I Start?

Post by frozen-north » Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:44 am

Sr. El Puelche wrote:
I am only going to relate what i saw, lived, smelled and tasted------

Liberation Theology, beginning in Brazil in the early 70’s ...

SCL
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Re: Where Should I Start?

Post by SCL » Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:41 am

Like my buddy Joe Biden says, "here is the deal":

Internet allows you to post or say practically anything.

However, the cost is simple: You post crap, insults, lies, tergiversations, made up stories (or history) and someone very promptly will call you on that right to your face.

Take the horrible case of the holocaust deniers or those who today tell you that slavery was not so bad. These people cannot get away with it.

Now, opinions and facts -- they teach in HS-- are two different things. I do not not need to write about them. Perhaps the most significant thing is that facts are the bricks of history; opinions are, well, intangible and ethereal; think of feelings, sentiments, desires, etc.

Today many believe that postings may carry more that a kernel of truth and therefore postings may influence the populace. Possibly true. Prior to the election of the current president, the phony facts that were spread were so frequent and abundant that people created sites where you could verify these lies or hoaxes.
We do not have a verification site for Chile and events during those dark years; moreover, Chileans do not write that much. No memoirs, no nothing. The cops, who killed more people than the military, never produced a book. The military, as far as I know, had only one general who wrote a remarkable memoir, Prats, which was published after his assassination in exile. It is an illuminating book.

To finish up: Chile as a democratic country (with all the ''pifias that you can name) has led most Latin American countries in the prosecution of human rights abuses, including the fact that special jails have been built to house those duly convicted.

Final addendum: History is not developed or composed based on internet postings.

Sr. El Puelche
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Re: Where Should I Start?

Post by Sr. El Puelche » Mon Sep 16, 2019 4:17 pm

While this is the internet, its not high school——Why are you acting like you are in high school?——You have, in your demeanor and statements, a position so claim them and we can examine it all———just contradicting what I am relating does not get anywhere——What the hell, just tell your own story, if you have one? You are reactionary and emotional about it——in your language and demeanor you propose that an alternative position exists—so write it out and we can look at it——seriously get on with it.

Insults and slander——I don’t think anything has been an insult here and much less slander——a challenge maybe, and well put on your part actually in regard to the gorros—— i saw an it happen and I have no proof of it happening=====no newsreel and or newspaper clipping or internet link———damn, but I saw it.

Yes, I can say anything I want——nearly—So Pratt wrote a book about his experience——did he site and reference everything he wrote? —— according to you I can’t relate my personal experience but Pratt can and it’s legitimate?

The holocaust and slavery——never mentioned it——I was not not there and actually not born yet so I can’t really comment on it——except for my 7 uncles (not jewish) that were taken by the nazis to slave camps in Germany and only 4 came back——oh, yeah I don’t have a link for that so I guess it did not happen.

I think there is a saying where the winners get to write history——so what good is history anyway? an ancillary point is that history and it’s bricks don’t always add up to the truth—in fact probably less than 50/50 so i grant you that.

I am relating what I experienced and that’s it——addendum's and facts I will leave up to you SCL or anyone else——like you said Chileans don’t talk about it but I do.

Yeah Chile has been very vocal about leading the way to understanding dictatorship and social change——no one cares really—— its a sad reality where the marginalized suffer and it just goes on.

Al Bordaje Muchachos!!!!

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Julito
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Re: Where Should I Start?

Post by Julito » Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:00 pm

Yep, keep relating what you experienced, it´s interesting.

Ignore the trolling, reacting only gives it oxygen.

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eeuunikkeiexpat
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Re: Where Should I Start?

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:00 pm

How about the ultimate accusation, whether true or not :?: El P is CIA and an expert in uncovering and decloaking the opposition :alien: :alien:

The individual flak received matches who I would expect it from so keep on keeping on, this will be both fun and educational.

Or go and complain to Charles if you don't agree and/or your feelings get hurt.
There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true;

the other is to refuse to believe what is true.

- Søren Kierkegaard

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Magnyz
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Re: Where Should I Start?

Post by Magnyz » Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:12 am

Wow, have not checked the forum for some weeks and what do I see now ... 70 posts of conversation with El Puelche. Welcome back and I will read all posts with great interest. Cooool. :D

Sr. El Puelche
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Re: Where Should I Start?

Post by Sr. El Puelche » Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:20 pm

The next three months or so, half in Santiago and the other half in La Serena. Santiago, a modern city and La Serena p provincial town———certainly not backwards but a much different vive and speed. In Santiago, things escalated with issues every day including power outages as the FMLR attacked power stations. Candles, matches and food stocked away was the regular norm during this time.

There is no doubt Pinochet was executing people. At the time people knew this but no pro-pinochet supporters brought it up. The day of the coup was one thing were those executed were given to families to bury——as I said before there were maybe 30 or so in La Serena and similar numbers in all other towns and cities. Santiago was different with something of around 13,000 or 15,000 were held there——many did not make it out. I can’t say its fair——but that is the reality of it———What I do want to impart is that Chile’s economy was being built back up from the ashes by Pinochet———if you minded your business, nothing was going to happen to you on the part of the government. My family suffered greatly under Allende and the communists made it hard for them, essentially starving them——so you see this is the difference. Now many can be upset in regard to what the media was allowed to report and what was shown on television and I get it. Por La Razon o la Fureza Chile would have fallen into civil war if Pinochet had not had the hardest of hands in leading the country. Strong words and my opinion but there it is.

I only had two occasions where I knew first hand the taking of people and torture during Pinochet’s time——I had dozens if not hundred of first hand experiences where the left up to no good. Maybe i was not talking to the right people but my relationship with Chileans was very well rounded, young and old, wealthy and poorest poor and everyone in between. Maybe as a foriegner and an American, things were not shared, I don’t know, I can only relate what I saw.

I hope readers will share what they saw from that time, especially from the left side——I would like to hear it in order to examine and fill in the gaps of what I already know——and as well, so anyone reading can have two sides to the story.


Does this fit hear and now? IDK but gonna write it anyway———With Pinochet as head of Army General Staff and Allende believing him to be on top of any coup attempt, mid 1973 came and went. Sometime in June I think there was a disorganized coup attempt that year with tanks being the main force and became known as the “Tanquetazo.” With small numbers it was bound to fail and it did. What I was told was that for the military, planning the 11 de septiembre coup, they were impressed with how little people supported Allende as he had made a radio address at the Tanquetazo became active. On 11 de septiembre they started early. I know in La Serena and the environs a skeleton crew of Carabineros was left behind as they brought in police into Santiago from all over Chile leaving at 11:30 pm the night before.

Fidel Castro had come to Chile for what was supposed to be a few day trip but ending staying a month. He stayed at Allende’s home which became unbearable with Castro hanging out. He had two gifts for Allende———an alligator which was let go in the pool and a gold plated AK 47——which Allende eventually used to shoot himself witnessed by his mistress and personal secretary at the time “La Playita.” ———A late 1980’s interview with her in France’s Paris Match relates her experience. After La Moneda was taken over they found him is his office of Morande——a small door leading to the street which Pinochet had bricked up in the restoration of La Moneda in the aftermath of the coup———I think Bachilet had the door restored and exists again. Fireman took his body out wrapped in a cheap wool plaid blanket. Pinochet had offered a plane to take him anywhere he wanted to go but he chose to address the nation via radio and his choice was to die in his office sitting on the sofa. Now what to do with the body? Family friends or ours, related to Allende, offered their family tomb in Valparaiso——he was taken immediately, and under secrecy, interned. The only lasting symbol of his presidency now being his new grave and broken black eyeglasses.

My brother in law now well enough to travel flew back to La Serena. I rode the bus mid day out of Santiago to La Serena——about 12 hours——and not salon cama. A nice if not long ride to see Chile——In Los Vilos we stopped to eat——the Copec and I had Conger eel for the first time. Apart from that——nothing——except for the road crews digging trench, by hand, on each side of the Pan American highway——a meter wide and a meter deep. Maybe for drainage or tech lines to be later installed, I don’t know. Pinochet had put forth a program much like American President Roosevelt did with work programs. Men were paid and fed but camped out across the country on work projects. I met the colonel in charge of the Fourth Region at party not soon after I arrived in La Serena so I posed the question, “Why not just buy a tractor and get it done?”——his response, “Yes, I could buy a tractor or two at $100k US dollars each, but I’d rather have my men making a living."


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eeuunikkeiexpat
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Re: Where Should I Start?

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:44 pm

Might be deleted now but I once recounted a story of a member of my extended Chilean family, this individual was a drafted soldier and was at the stadium. During the many executions, they would have the lights shining in the recruits eyes as they fired at the targets so they could not "see" who they were shooting at.
There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true;

the other is to refuse to believe what is true.

- Søren Kierkegaard

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41southchile
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Re: Where Should I Start?

Post by 41southchile » Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:29 am

eeuunikkeiexpat wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:44 pm
Might be deleted now but I once recounted a story of a member of my extended Chilean family, this individual was a drafted soldier and was at the stadium. During the many executions, they would have the lights shining in the recruits eyes as they fired at the targets so they could not "see" who they were shooting at.
Like firing squads during the war, a line of soldiers lined up to fire, but a couple were always given blanks. So a soldier could never be certain it was them that actually shot someone dead and plausibly claim they had never shot someone in a firing squad for sure, always a doubt
Comuna Loncotoro Lakes Region Chile

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