New member, but "old" reader

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eeuunikkeiexpat
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Re: New member, but "old" reader

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:07 pm

Donnybrook wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:54 pm
My advice would be not to burn your bridges in the Netherlands if you do come. Don't sell your house, rent it. Come with a view to spending 3-6 months here, Then see how things look on the ground. Price health care. Price housing once you understand the neighbourhoods. You can buy a LOT of plane tickets for your gf for what settling in would cost.
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empenada
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Re: New member, but "old" reader

Post by empenada » Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:46 am

admin wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:42 am
Well guess it depends on what you are doing. Obviously santiago is expensive.

In the neatherlands, day to day living expenses i thought were expensive, but my wife and i were in grad school at the university of amsterdam. Our masters programs cost us around $20,000 u.s. for both of us; an equvelent ranked program would have costs us an easy $100,000 u.s. each in the states, if not more. A lot more. Probably closer to 200,000 each.
University is still expensive, but more cheap if you're Euopean these days. I actually thought that the US would be an exception as well since they also fall under different rules for residency in the Netherlands. $ 20.000 USD sounds like "normal" prices.
If you have kids in the neatherlands it is cheaper. When i was there the goverment was paying people to have kids, besides all the investment in things like schools, daycare, etc.
Yeah the government is still paying a bit for children, but it depends what you get based on income and if both parents are working or not (even when 1 parent would earn more than 2 parents on average). It's not to much anymore and daycare is bloody expensive...bit the same amount as bringing your kid to a private school in Santiago (as I heard). Most of the times it would equal of what the other parent would earn by working part-time, so not so not so useful if you would work for the money only. In the past...you got more from the government indeed, but what was in the past is not a guarantee for the future..just like stocks earnings :wink:
What we see is a lot of dutch moving to chile that have money, simply because they dont have to pay the high taxes to the neatherlands. For tax advantage, probly cheaper to live in chile.
Money doesn't make you happy they say, but it opens a lot off doors :wink:

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empenada
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Re: New member, but "old" reader

Post by empenada » Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:49 am

Space Cat wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:39 am
empenada wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:31 am
I don't know what I would be able to earn in Chile (network engineer in the IT business), but so far I read about that for foreigners (especially the ones that don't speak Spanish fluently yet) it seems quit difficult to get a decent one, so my best option might even be trying to do remote working (the advantage of working in IT I hope).
There was a recent thread about Amazon deploying AWS here where we discussed how hard it is to find a decent network engineer or DevOps in Chile. Maybe you can use this shortage in IT to your advantage.
Thanks for the hint. I found the topic and interesting to read however if I read what the quality of Chileans are networking wise I might have to worry when having to work with them :wink:

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empenada
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Re: New member, but "old" reader

Post by empenada » Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:57 am

Jamers41 wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 3:38 pm
empenada wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:31 am

Living outside Santiago doesn't seem to be an option if I read about the time/travel needed to get in/out the city and the family of my girlfriend lives in the city....
If you are concerned about housing costs and can be somewhat mobile due to working in IT (and don't need to see the gf's family every single day), have you considered looking at somewhere just outside of Santiago?
I am not really interested to see the gf's family everyday indeed. Lived with her parents for 6 months and although they are very lovely people, that's enough for the rest of my life :wink:
Living outside Santiago...even a bit would be already to far for my gf, but it depends on the other costs if I would bring it back on the table. I would even prefer living somewhere close to Caburgua, cause that's still one of my favorite areas, but that would be way too far for her :(

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empenada
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Re: New member, but "old" reader

Post by empenada » Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:05 am

I was not planning to destroy my bridges. There seems to be some tight rules about my retirement funds when migrating as well, which isn't impossible but can cost a lot of money when not carefully planned. I am looking into renting out the house indeed, but I'll have to negotiate with the bank, since my mortgage contract would't allow it. People who rent are pretty well protected here in the Netherlands, so that's why most mortgages don't allow it. It certainly would at least provide some income if allowed.

mem
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Re: New member, but "old" reader

Post by mem » Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:38 pm

You have a lot of constraints that seem to be putting you into a higher cost of living. If your plan for income is to be a network engineer worker bee in Santiago....and that ties you to the city or commute distance to Santiago, you are pretty much destined to fail. Sounds like your girlfriends family ties are a double whammy to ball and chain you to Santiago.

Worker bees in Chile are simply the low paid underclass whereas in the US and perhaps Holland they are the middle+ class and there is a gamut, but in Chile it is mostly polarized...
The worker bees that work for someone...just get by
The business owners that employ worker bees are the wealthy aristocrats.

Santiago is obviously expensive just as any big city is that is not in an s-hole country. So trying to combine that with a work ethos such as above is doomed to utter failure.

I'd say your only options (to live in Santiago) are to start a successful profitable business or get a 6 figure a year USD/EUR remote job that lets you work remote.

You won't be able to afford Santiago or near Santiago (AND actually save something) if you just want to join the Santiago 8hr a day rat race.

My advice, that is perhaps a non-starter for you based on your girlfriends family requirements, if you want to live in Chile is to somehow get far away from Santiago. Live in Bio Bio or Maule, or Araucania, or Los Lagos. Get a remote job. You and your girlfriend can go to Santiago as often as either of you want to, it's cheap and easy on a bus. Meanwhile, start developing one or more businesses to wean yourself off the "remote job" necessity.

You will also live longer by minimizing your exposure to the pollution of the big city, since you certainly won't be able to afford living above the pollution in La Dehesa lol

thisisreallycomplicated
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Re: New member, but "old" reader

Post by thisisreallycomplicated » Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:52 pm

Donnybrook wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:54 pm
My advice would be not to burn your bridges in the Netherlands if you do come. Don't sell your house, rent it. Come with a view to spending 3-6 months here, Then see how things look on the ground. Price health care. Price housing once you understand the neighbourhoods. You can buy a LOT of plane tickets for your gf for what settling in would cost.
Renting out your house could work out ok, with the right tenants. But if you get the wrong tenants, it can be a nightmare, especially if you're out of the country.
“Now it’s conspiracy – they’ve made that something that should not even be entertained for a minute, that powerful people might get together and have a plan. Doesn’t happen, you’re a kook, you’re a conspiracy buff!” – George Carlin

Donnybrook
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Re: New member, but "old" reader

Post by Donnybrook » Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:31 am

Re pollution. Winter pollution is much higher in southern towns, which rely heavily on wood to heat and cook, than Santiago , This is one reason on the ground observation is vital. As for Santiago, the eastern side has best air quality. La Dehesa is often though to be better because of distance but the city pollution rolls in there in the afternoon. Las Condes has much better air quality in winter if you go by the official measurements. But housing can be expensive with a one bedroom flat coming in at just over CLP$400,000 on average. Also metro access only reaches part of it.

The advice about what sort of salary/life to expect in Santiago is good. I think CLP$1,500,000 is a low estimate for the income you should be aiming at. As well, speaking fairly fluent Spanish is vital.

mem
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Re: New member, but "old" reader

Post by mem » Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:27 pm

Donnybrook wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:31 am
Re pollution. Winter pollution is much higher in southern towns, which rely heavily on wood to heat and cook, than Santiago , This is one reason on the ground observation is vital. As for Santiago, the eastern side has best air quality. La Dehesa is often though to be better because of distance but the city pollution rolls in there in the afternoon. Las Condes has much better air quality in winter if you go by the official measurements. But housing can be expensive with a one bedroom flat coming in at just over CLP$400,000 on average. Also metro access only reaches part of it.

The advice about what sort of salary/life to expect in Santiago is good. I think CLP$1,500,000 is a low estimate for the income you should be aiming at. As well, speaking fairly fluent Spanish is vital.
Regarding winter pollution in the south, it's important to quantify towns versus cities. Basically any midsize city with human density is going to have an accumulation of pollution. Temuco for example. However, take caburgua for instance, it's an area of country a bit away from another small town pucon. The key I have found is to not live in any "town" proper with density regardless of size. You are surrounded by several hundred it not thousands of people, making bad decisions (burning wet wood, garbage, etc) the houses are small and cramped.
take the caburgua/metrenehue ( roughly between the pucon and caburgua downtowns ) area it's outside of town...bigger houses, more land, ( 500mt2 versus multi-hectare plots) year around clean air. Not directly in the town, but outside of it. Santiago on the other hand...was there in August a few years ago in providencia and Las condes. Thought while there its not so bad. Then i drove up and around the areas of la dehesa, lo barnachea, and looked down into the basin of Santiago and was gobsmacked by the dingy cloud of smog that I thought "was not so bad" while in the cloud. This yellow brown cloud was just rolling around the entire basin. As far as I'm concerned if I can see the cloud of smog...its not worth it to expose my family to that....and that's with wood burning bans in Santiago. So if one is to live in Santiago one needs to look at elevation so you can be above the smog. Those high elevation areas get more and more expensive the higher you go. Only the wealthy aristocrats lol can afford clean air in Santiago. The rest are sucking in carcinogenic fumes all day long.

It's really too bad the girlfriend cant compromise and settle for taking a bus to santiago, visiting her family for a week or so at a time

The cost of rental housing is much less in the south. We had some friends renting a 2bdroom house just outside of pucon towards caburgua for 180k clp furnished. It was smallish though. On the somewhat larger side 110-140m2 3-4 bedroom can be had for around 300-350k clp.

From what I have been told by highly experienced IT people who easily pull 6 figures in the US, the best they could get for a job offer was around 38k USD a year in Santiago. And to most Chileans in Santiago thats a "Really good" salary. I'm talking people with 15+ years experience, college degree, etc. Senior java developer, senior system engineer, etc. It's a waste to take such a job in Santiago. When those same people can easily pull 125k-175k in the US,EU. Outside of starting a business, a remote job is the only way you are going to be able to thrive and save unless you find some crazy exception to the rule

at46
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Re: New member, but "old" reader

Post by at46 » Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:01 pm

mem wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:27 pm
From what I have been told by highly experienced IT people who easily pull 6 figures in the US, the best they could get for a job offer was around 38k USD a year in Santiago. And to most Chileans in Santiago thats a "Really good" salary. I'm talking people with 15+ years experience, college degree, etc. Senior java developer, senior system engineer, etc. It's a waste to take such a job in Santiago. When those same people can easily pull 125k-175k in the US,EU. Outside of starting a business, a remote job is the only way you are going to be able to thrive and save unless you find some crazy exception to the rule
EU pay in IT is a lot less than in the US, and Netherlands is an outlier on the low side even inside the EU it seems.
https://www.daxx.com/article/it-salarie ... rends-2018

I've heard a 2 million salary to start was pretty easy to get with good Spanish skills and the work is pretty relaxed.

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Space Cat
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Re: New member, but "old" reader

Post by Space Cat » Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:14 pm

Yes, IT jobs are paid that much only on the US coasts. Canada, Australia, the Netherlands, Germany pay significantly less. And countries like Spain pay peanuts for any kind of engineering.

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Re: New member, but "old" reader

Post by HybridAmbassador » Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:40 pm

Space Cat wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:14 pm
Yes, IT jobs are paid that much only on the US coasts. Canada, Australia, the Netherlands, Germany pay significantly less. And countries like Spain pay peanuts for any kind of engineering.
Putin is promising Russian IT genre that they pretty soon they will be earning US$100K plus a year if developing to infiltrate US cyber-security! So Space-gato, time to pack up to Russia bound, he,he,heee
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