Solar/Photovoltaic/Hybrid Demonstration Projects

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Nullius
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Re: Solar/Photovoltaic/Hybrid Demonstration Projects

Post by Nullius » Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:26 pm

pinguin wrote:A Margin that can be driven down by importing the stuff in containers brought by ships, rather than one by one by plane.

Most of the suppliers already use ocean container shipment with resupply every few months. If an item is not in stock and needed by a customer, this company will arrange for expedited shipment at client cost.

More than anything else that affects consumer price on these item is the high markup at the retail level.

For example, the "Generador AIR X marine 400 Watt 12 Volt" wind turbine is listed for retail in Chile at about USD 2200. The shipping cost to Chile is about USD 100 by special order. The same item sells in the US at retail for less than USD 800 and the precio por mayor is about USD 500.

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Re: Solar/Photovoltaic/Hybrid Demonstration Projects

Post by admin » Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:28 pm

Gringo Pillo wrote:Interesting ideas

Composting is not new to me because in Finland nearly every house has an insulated compost (mandatory to separate biological waste)

However the use of this heat to warm water is interesting. Probably the gasoline consumption to mow a 5000 m2 yard is more than the energy you get from the compost.


http://www.heliplast.cl has prices of many equipment including windmills and water powered generators.

Has the idea of making biogas at home spread in chile? in the south we have wood but this could be useful in the north?

http://www.careindia.co.nr/

what appeals to me about it, and I know it is no silver bullet, is that it would be relatively easy to convince many people in rural areas to try it because they already have similar greenhouses. Very common in the Patagonia in fact. mowing a lawn is one thing, but imagine you live in a one room shack burning wood on a 1,000 hectare ranch down south, or even a 10 hectare ranch, raising sheep, cattle or whatever. The potential energy growing around you is nearly unlimited, relative to the needs to heat a house. Especially if you consider a call to the gas guy might take a month for a new tank of propane (most use wood for cooking and hot water by the way). so, simply the yard clippings from a relatively urban lot is sufficient, down south where larger properties are the norm has big potential. Large properties, lots of biomass available, easily built, easy to understand (we are talking often people with 8th grade and below educations but experts in farming), works in wet and cloudy environments (temps do not get Wisconsin cold accept in the mountains and way down south).

the first thing I thought about when I read the descriptions was all the piles and piles of rotting hay I see in Southern Chile that they can not feed to the cows for whatever reason. Mostly because it was harvested wet. That is perfect, cheap, and free fuel that once broken down at 10 times the rate of rotting in the field, can be used as fertilizer.

I thought combining one of those systems with a simple pre-solar water heater (likly best on the way in to the house, to add another say 50 F over ambient), and then sinking the pipes outbound from the the house about 5-6 feet under ground (50-70 F constant geo temp), would likly bring a constant return water temp of over 200+ F without a lot of work or materials for the life of a house. Most of the experiments I looked at said that a constant 130 - 150 F could be reached with adding materials about every 3 months, and some up to 6 months. combined, it should be low work high return.

Regarding imports, all the solar panels, winmills, and so on are all sold in Chile. You just got to do your homework. There is a place on the highway south of Puerto Varas that specializes in renewable energy including windmills and other solutions. As I understand a gringo owns it (will investigate).
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Re: Solar/Photovoltaic/Hybrid Demonstration Projects

Post by pinguin » Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:39 pm

Nullius wrote:
pinguin wrote:A Margin that can be driven down by importing the stuff in containers brought by ships, rather than one by one by plane.

Most of the suppliers already use ocean container shipment with resupply every few months. If an item is not in stock and needed by a customer, this company will arrange for expedited shipment at client cost.

More than anything else that affects consumer price on these item is the high markup at the retail level.

For example, the "Generador AIR X marine 400 Watt 12 Volt" wind turbine is listed for retail in Chile at about USD 2200. The shipping cost to Chile is about USD 100 by special order. The same item sells in the US at retail for less than USD 800 and the precio por mayor is about USD 500.
Here you got a business opportunity, then. Quite interesting.

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Re: Solar/Photovoltaic/Hybrid Demonstration Projects

Post by pinguin » Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:47 pm

admin wrote: Regarding imports, all the solar panels, winmills, and so on are all sold in Chile. You just got to do your homework. There is a place on the highway south of Puerto Varas that specializes in renewable energy including windmills and other solutions. As I understand a gringo owns it (will investigate).
Great! That's the kind of enterpreneurs our country need. People that manufacture here. Do you have pictures or refferences?

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Re: Solar/Photovoltaic/Hybrid Demonstration Projects

Post by oregon woodsmoke » Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:33 pm

I'm a big fan of composting, but I have to say, it isn't as easy as it sounds.

I've been trying to compost all year and while I did get the organic matter to shrink down considerably, I never did get the pile to heat up, and after an entire year, I still don't have usable compost.

It's supposed to be very simple and I am capable of following directions. I joined a composting forum and get advice from the experts. Still no heat.

Not only that, but there are a lot of posters to the compost forum who can't get their compost pile to heat up, so it isn't just me.

And I have to confess that I am not the only one whose compost bin goes through periods when it stinks and has flies. Fortunately, I have not had mice and bears into my compost, but that has happened to other people.

Compost must be turned and mixed occasionally, so the system would have to be set up so that it was possible to turn the compost around whatever plumbing or wiring was in there.

It's hard for me to imagine, since I can't get heat, but it is possible to get too much heat. Every now and again someone's barn burns down because a damp bale of hay caught fire with spontaneous combustion .

Just me, but I wouldn't want to put any money into compost heating until I figured out how to get the compost to heat up.

On the other hand, I've had excellent luck with using passive solar to heat a house.

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Re: Solar/Photovoltaic/Hybrid Demonstration Projects

Post by nwdiver » Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:56 pm

I have been told it is also a matter of the way urban electricity is distributed, it’s a bit of chaos (no news there), and that rural areas with much more linear distribution systems may be the first to have intertie available, several large wineries may be a test bed for the design.
It's all about the wine.

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Re: Solar/Photovoltaic/Hybrid Demonstration Projects

Post by fraggle092 » Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:34 pm

This was an issue I was reluctant to bring up before, as it may have appeared overly nit-picky at the time but in a lot of places the Chilean Sine wave..... isn't.
For instance I heard that the local Casino will have to fit expensive powerline filters as the multitude of switchmode PSUs they use in the slot machines are appreciably distorting the local power. This issue is only now starting to being taken seriously by the power distributors.

You fit a true sinewave inverter, but its not feeding into a sinewave supply, so does it attempt to follow the distortion or will it try to compensate for the whole of Chile's crappy power ? It can't, but the resultant current inrush/outflows at different points in the cycle may generate some strange effects, none good for your inverter.

Also, just by looking at the state of some of the local wiring, the variable impedances of the individual empalmes and sector feeds will determine where the outgoing current eventually ends up in a somewhat uncontrolled way. Never mind phase imbalance.
I am pretty unfamiliar with the idea of reselling home-generated electricity, but I can see those drawbacks.
Another problem that I can foresee is that at 7:30 pm on a Winter's night when electricity demand is at it's peak, contribution from solar sources would be nil.
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