Could a Lawyer and Family Member be Scamming Us?

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canuck44
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Could a Lawyer and Family Member be Scamming Us?

Post by canuck44 » Sun Jul 09, 2017 1:51 am

Hello,

My wife is of Chilean descent and is both a Canadian Citizen and a Chilean Citizen.

Her/our permanent residence is here in Canada and she has lived here in Canada almost all of her life.

A relative in Chile who happens to be a lawyer asked her if he could sell his property to her during a divorce he was going through because she lived in Canada and he wanted to take advantage of some kind of loophole.

She said no.

That was 2010.

Now, he told her family that he got his own mother to sign the deal for my wife back in 2010 - how I don't know - and that my wife has owned that property for 7 years now.

He told my wife that he needs her to sign a document giving power to sell this property she apparently owns, to her father so he could do it from inside Chile on her behalf because he needs the money because the bank might foreclose soon. He then wants her to go to the Chilean consulate and formalize it somehow.

My wife's jaw dropped.

We don't know what kind of scheme he is brewing or has already set in motion but my wife has never signed anything and is worried she may own a property and be responsible for any liens or repercussions from this.

That relative is a lawyer so maybe he crafted and forged documents on his own.

My question is, how do we find out if my wife owns any property in Chile?

Thanks in advance.

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Re: Could a Lawyer and Family Member be Scamming Us?

Post by Andres » Sun Jul 09, 2017 2:43 am

It ain't easy.

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Re: Could a Lawyer and Family Member be Scamming Us?

Post by tiagoabner » Sun Jul 09, 2017 3:01 am

I'm not an expert in Chilean law by any means, but a document that was not signed by a person or by someone with said person's power of attorney shouldn't be valid.

Does your wife have anyone on Chile to whom your wife has given power of attorney? Do anyone have the number of her documents?

This seems incredibly sketchy and you should avoid getting her involved in any kind of v"loophole" scheme for obvious reasons.

It's best to get in touch with a competent lawyer in Chile to sort out this mess. The admin of this forum has a law company that has been quoted already on this post and he should be able to at least point you in the right direction.

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Re: Could a Lawyer and Family Member be Scamming Us?

Post by Zenth » Sun Jul 09, 2017 9:20 am

Chile functions under a system of law different than Americans and Canadians are accustomed to. Call Spencer.

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Re: Could a Lawyer and Family Member be Scamming Us?

Post by Gloria » Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:03 am

canuck44 wrote:
My question is, how do we find out if my wife owns any property in Chile?
Have someone that you trust in Chile ( I know, will be a hard task) to go diligently to check at CONSERVADOR DE BIENES RAICES with her RUT# in the area where supposedly the property is if it shows up there. If it doesn't it could be only a bluff.

" That relative is a lawyer so maybe he crafted and forged documents on his own" BINGO!

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Re: Could a Lawyer and Family Member be Scamming Us?

Post by admin » Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:05 am

Well, first, don't give a power of attorney or sign anything related to it, until you have clarity about what is going on. Most definitely get your own attorney, and don't depend on anyone related to the transaction or the family. Get some objective advice on it.

Then the next step would be to have YOUR attorney pull a certificate of ownership from the property registry, along with a title search to see what went on with the property and why.

What does not add up, is that somehow he seems to have been able to transfer the property, yet there is a mortgage on it. Banks don't let that sort of thing happen without a whole lot of very carefully reviewed paperwork by their legal department. So, either A) your wife signed a power of attorney at some point without knowing; or B) someone falsified a public document with your wife's name [big, no, no that is prosecuted regularly]. Perhaps, both.

Now, that is just my shoot from the hip read of the situation, and it is all just based on what you have told us. In our experience, about 80% of the time there is something completely different going on, once we dig in to the paper trail.

Who knows, kind of sounds like the scam might have backfired, and your wife might be the proud owner of a property in Chile she can do whatever she likes with. Does it have a nice view?
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Re: Could a Lawyer and Family Member be Scamming Us?

Post by admin » Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:15 am

Gloria wrote:
canuck44 wrote:
My question is, how do we find out if my wife owns any property in Chile?
Have someone that you trust in Chile ( I know, will be a hard task) to go diligently to check in CONSERVADOR DE BIENES RAICES with her RUT# in the area where supposedly the property is if it shows up there. If it doesn't it could be only a bluff.

" That relative is a lawyer so maybe he crafted and forged documents on his own" BINGO!
That is not going to tell them anything by itself. Some random person that is not a lawyer is going to read through like the last 40 to 200 years of titles at a property registry and try and find that needle in a very large convoluted haystack?

Even if they know what they are looking for, it might not be there at all for a lot of reasons, if someone is trying to actively hide the chain of ownership.

I am not even going to try to explain how on a public forum, because some other scammer will try to rip someone off by doing it.
Spencer Global Chile: Legal, relocation, and Investment assistance in Chile.
For more information visit: https://www.spencerglobal.com

From USA and outside Chile dial 1-917-727-5985 (U.S.), in Chile dial 65 2 42 1024 or by cell 747 97974.

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hlf2888
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Re: Could a Lawyer and Family Member be Scamming Us?

Post by hlf2888 » Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:20 am

Every time I signed a legal document in Chile, a fingerprint was required. That is harder to falsify... if that gives you any relief.

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Re: Could a Lawyer and Family Member be Scamming Us?

Post by Gloria » Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:33 am

admin wrote:
That is not going to tell them anything by itself. Some random person that is not a lawyer is going to read through like the last 40 to 200 years of titles at a property registry and try and find that needle in a very large convoluted haystack?
Sorry to say but you are wrong! We all know that Chile's behind in times in many ways however there are government offices that have been digitalized and searches can be done out of the "comfort of your own home" and the Conservador of Bienes Raices as the Registro Civil are some of them.

Check this out.
https://www.conservador.cl/portal/tramites
I'm from the generation of common sense, wisdom and unfiltered answers. I sayeth as I seeth.

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Re: Could a Lawyer and Family Member be Scamming Us?

Post by Gloria » Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:35 am

hlf2888 wrote:Every time I signed a legal document in Chile, a fingerprint was required. That is harder to falsify... if that gives you any relief.
Exactly! and you beat me to it. I was just going to mention it. :thumleft:
I'm from the generation of common sense, wisdom and unfiltered answers. I sayeth as I seeth.

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Re: Could a Lawyer and Family Member be Scamming Us?

Post by admin » Sun Jul 09, 2017 12:42 pm

Gloria wrote:
admin wrote:
That is not going to tell them anything by itself. Some random person that is not a lawyer is going to read through like the last 40 to 200 years of titles at a property registry and try and find that needle in a very large convoluted haystack?
Sorry to say but you are wrong! We all know that Chile's behind in times in many ways however there are government offices that have been digitalized and searches can be done out of the "comfort of your own home" and the Conservador of Bienes Raices as the Registro Civil are some of them.

Check this out.
https://www.conservador.cl/portal/tramites
good luck with that.
Spencer Global Chile: Legal, relocation, and Investment assistance in Chile.
For more information visit: https://www.spencerglobal.com

From USA and outside Chile dial 1-917-727-5985 (U.S.), in Chile dial 65 2 42 1024 or by cell 747 97974.

canuck44
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Re: Could a Lawyer and Family Member be Scamming Us?

Post by canuck44 » Sun Jul 09, 2017 2:00 pm

Thanks everyone for your input and advice.

I've sent an email saying the same thing to Spencer Global to see what they have to say. They should reply within a few days. Perhaps I'll hire them to look into this for me.

My wife isn't signing anything and won't involve herself in any scheme, or anything to do with that relative.

She hasn't given over power of attorney to anyone to act on her behalf unless like 'admin' posted above, it was unknowing somehow.

We'll check out the Conservador website to see what we can find but will also get our own Attorney (perhaps SG) to be thorough. Her parents live in Chile and so does her brother. She trusts them all.

Thanks 'admin' for your input as well. Are the registries in Chile at the municipal or provincial level? Its odd, the document that this scheming, lawyer relative wants her to sign lists an address in one city but when my wife went to look it up on Google Maps, the address appeared in another city about an hour drive away. Not sure if that was an error or part of the scam. Also, is it possible to transfer the property (by forging documents) to another, without the bank knowing the property was transferred, because this relative lawyer kept paying the mortgage so the bank had no reason to check anything?

We're not sure how far down the rabbit hole this goes. Is it a bluff? Or did he forge enough documents to even create a bank account for her that he's using for this purpose etc...

About the fingerprint being required, that's good to hear, but maybe he forged that too??

Thanks again. I'll update when we hear back from either SG or another lawyer.

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