buying land in patagonia

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spambush
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Re: buying land in patagonia

Post by spambush » Thu Jun 02, 2016 12:56 pm

Donnybrook wrote: You seem to live in an apartment in a city and may not have the necessary stamina (not commitment, which is different) to face winters in remote parts of a remote country. I don't doubt your desire to see this wish come true but people on the forum are trying to explain that it will be harder than the hardest bits you imagine. The advice may seem harsh but you are not the first person to think that you want to live in the remote parts of Chile without really understanding what that would be like.
boy you sure do make a lot of assumptions... this entire paragraph is just one super baseless conjecture about me, my fitness, experience, and willingness, but thats ok. again, seems like more projecting. i am in interior alaska right now and was staying in cabin and not even using the electricity inside. no one has actually answered my original question... average cost of land down there. and the reason is pretty obvious... because no one knows... none of you have ever been down there.

spambush
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Re: buying land in patagonia

Post by spambush » Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:08 pm

snobrd4life wrote:Seriously, why not just live off the grid somewhere out in the sticks in the states? Alaska? Pacific Northwest? Haven't read anything that your have written so far that makes Patagonia sound like a better place considering your financial situation and lack of experience or common sense.

Set aside that it would completely ruin you financially, you seriously think you're going to get a medevac helicopter in remote Patagonia in an emergency? There are plenty of places north of Pto Montt that don't even get a bar off cell phone service on a regular day. The posters didn't initially bust your balls just for kicks. It was meant to be good advice. Anything after your tirade of hostile profanity is just pissing into the wind. What do you expect?

Get realistic and accept constructive advice. Otherwise this is a waste of time for all posters.
well im in alaska and it seems like "common sense" why somone would rather start a farm in chile than here... not even really going to entertain that question. oh the irony of somone telling me to start a farm in remote alaska, only accessible by a plane that costs 1000 dollars a trip, where winter is 7 months long and temperatures dip to -50f. as for the 48, its a toxic wasteland... ground water, soil, everything corrupt. anyways, alaska is probably my second choice, but there really are not alot of places left in this country that are good anymore for farming... the entire western half of the states were drenched with radioisotopes in the 50s that last forever, they are all still there in the soil. the entire northwest is polluted and extremely dangerous due to the hanford nuclear waste site, with contaminated ground water out to a 200 mile radius, thats the entire northwest. i could keep going on and on, but i digress.

ever hear of a satellite phone?

so what are you trying to tell me? people just flat out die in a medical emergency in o higgins? please...

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Space Cat
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Re: buying land in patagonia

Post by Space Cat » Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:26 pm

$30k is just for the first year of living because moving to a new country involves lots of costs and Chile is not a cheap country.

From your long rant full of trashing other lifestyles and kinds of people (lol, "femine" males are somehow bad? what's this, 1950?) it seems that your ego is absorbed with "holier than thou" cliche based on New Age "living from the land" idea. (Yep, assumptions but I've met people just like you before.)

Then you take realistic advices as "hostility". It looks really insecure. No offense, really. Just a view for a possible introspection.

You will not find peace not only in Patagonia but even on Mars until you find peace within yourself. That includes being respectful and grateful towards others and allowing them to have their life choices (even the subjectively wrong ones).

spambush
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Re: buying land in patagonia

Post by spambush » Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:33 pm

"Have you considered you may be viewed as an extreme cheapskate ("Un Cagada Absoluto"), and as such unwelcome?
Not only with imigration, but the Chilean people you have so little to offer."

"Chile's Patagonia will eat you two alive in my humble opinion."

"first thing you need to do is splurge on some spaces in your text. I know they are expensive, but they will pay you back big time in terms of people being able to parse your text in to bite size problems to provide suggestions."

"yea, I stopped trying to read that block of text at " ...1 week pregnant wife to patagonia to live on a sheep farm...".
Divorce in Chile is fairly new. There are very tight restrictions on the allowable grounds for divorce. I am almost certain I recall seeing that one included in the law. "

"Can you imagine this guy's wife's parents reading that post.
Too cheap to punctuate! Amazing."

so these are the offensive, uncalled for smart ass comments made about me and my wife and my wive's family's opinions about me that i responded to... sorry, where is the constructive advice in there again? i missed it...

"You will not find peace not only in Patagonia but even on Mars until you find peace within yourself. That includes being respectful and grateful towards others and allowing them to have their life choices (even the subjectively wrong ones)."

i like how you completely disregard the disrespectful, spiteful, unwarranted comments made about me before my reaction... typical.

spambush
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Re: buying land in patagonia

Post by spambush » Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:12 pm

Andres wrote:
spambush wrote:
eeuunikkeiexpat wrote:And the visa strategy? Everything else is pie in the sky if all of you do not/can not get to permanent residency.
we will do whatever is required to achieve residency status
Good luck with that. And I mean it.

You have not seen "bureaucracy" until you have seen Chilean bureaucracy.
Laws, regulations and internal policies are often subject to personal interpretation, whether the person enjoyed their most recent meal and the phase of the moon.

I attempted to live in Chile and obtain a permanent resident visa.
Despite bringing hundreds of thousands of dollars in assets into Chile and having annual income in the tens of thousands of dollars, my permanent resident visa was denied. The Chilean lawyer told me that even the head of the legal section of the department of immigration said the denial was contrary to the immigration guidelines but there was nothing he could do about it. I would have to take them to court . . . which would have a "random" outcome not based upon facts or law.

Immigration has a reputation for random outcomes.

So, as I said at the start, good luck with it.
great... thats messed up.

bert.douglas
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Re: buying land in patagonia

Post by bert.douglas » Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:55 pm

spambush wrote:.... as for the 48, its a toxic wasteland... ground water, soil, everything corrupt. anyways, alaska is probably my second choice, but there really are not alot of places left in this country that are good anymore for farming... the entire western half of the states were drenched with radioisotopes in the 50s that last forever, they are all still there in the soil. the entire northwest is polluted and extremely dangerous due to the hanford nuclear waste site, with contaminated ground water out to a 200 mile radius, thats the entire northwest. i could keep going on and on, but i digress....
I have noticed one mental hangup that distinguishes engineers from mathematicians. In engineering, there is no such thing as zero. Instead there is the concept of "good enough". This is especially true of radiation. Life on earth evolved in the presence of radiation, and natural radiation permeates the earth. It is in every rock, every handful of soil, and every breath of air. It has been this way forever and ever. There is no such thing as a perfectly clean place or a complete absence of radiation. This is not a realistic, reasonable, or even a desirable goal.

There is good evidence that small amounts of radiation are actually beneficial. This effect is called hormesis.

Despite all the human pollution, there are very few places on earth where the artificial radiation is greater than the natural radiation.

https://xkcd.com/radiation/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_hormesis

Curious. What is wrong with the southeast ? You don't like heat, humidity, and bugs ?

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Space Cat
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Re: buying land in patagonia

Post by Space Cat » Thu Jun 02, 2016 3:09 pm

spambush wrote:"i like how you completely disregard the disrespectful, spiteful, unwarranted comments made about me before my reaction... typical.
Only the comment about your wife can be counted as somewhat offensive. Taking "eaten alive by Patagonia" or critics of your writing style as an offense is your own decision. (By the way, I skipped this wall of text too, it's not readable at all.)

And it doesn't change the fact that in response you trashed millions of people from your very high horse of True Man or whatever you call it.

Anyway now you're cutting ties with a few very experienced English-speaking people who live in the far South by your own hands.

spambush
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Re: buying land in patagonia

Post by spambush » Thu Jun 02, 2016 3:19 pm

SE : population density, nuclear facilities, toxic dump sites, tornados, zika, impaired waters, homeschool law

lost gringo
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Re: buying land in patagonia

Post by lost gringo » Thu Jun 02, 2016 4:03 pm

While i don't live in Villa O'Higgins, i do live a few hundred miles south of Puerto Montt (latitude 43 degrees) in a very rural area. i have no cell phone signal nor landline phone service to my property but i have a recently installed solar electric system and am in the process of acquiring satellite internet service.
land around here is $10-20,000 usd a hectare depending on location i.e. near ruta Carretera Austral, lake/river frontage, tourist destination, or farm/ranch land.
i would imagine land further south would also be close to those numbers, if you could find a small enough parcel to be affordable. That in itself could be a challenge as most farm land in rural Patagonia is hundreds or thousands of hectares.
i don't think the forum members are trying to attack you personally, just trying to provide answers to an extremely difficult question.
i do think what you are proposing is doable but it is not going to be easy. i am saying that from personal experience. Actually the few people who live near me live pretty much as you desire, but they were born here, which is a huge advantage as it provides a big support group. Families here are very close and depend on each other greatly to survive. i am fortunate in that they have "adopted" my family as their own. Without their help, i doubt i could have accomplished as much as i have, perhaps you will be as fortunate in that regard.
Your biggest obstacles are going to be satisfying immigration requirements, Chileno bureaucracy, and the cost of living which in Patagonia is a lot more than in the north or around bigger cities as others here have said. Everything here not available locally has to be shipped by air or by water which adds a minimum 20%.
hope this helps in your quest and good luck.
Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.
allegedly said by Mark Twain

Britkid
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Re: buying land in patagonia

Post by Britkid » Thu Jun 02, 2016 4:16 pm

Space Cat wrote: From your long rant full of trashing other lifestyles and kinds of people (lol, "femine" males are somehow bad? what's this, 1950?) it seems that your ego is absorbed with "holier than thou" cliche based on New Age "living from the land" idea. (Yep, assumptions but I've met people just like you before.)

Then you take realistic advices as "hostility". It looks really insecure. No offense, really. Just a view for a possible introspection.

You will not find peace not only in Patagonia but even on Mars until you find peace within yourself. That includes being respectful and grateful towards others and allowing them to have their life choices (even the subjectively wrong ones).
I agree with this post. I think it's well put. Yes, it's true that a few people were rude to you (not many) but the way you responded was even worse.
In 2014/2015 I blogged about my life in Chile. http://web.archive.org/web/201601121940 ... age_id=268

HybridAmbassador
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Re: buying land in patagonia

Post by HybridAmbassador » Thu Jun 02, 2016 4:54 pm

spambush wrote:"Have you considered you may be viewed as an extreme cheapskate ("Un Cagada Absoluto"), and as such unwelcome?
Not only with imigration, but the Chilean people you have so little to offer."

i couldnt care less what spiritually bankrupt, materialistic urban society would think of my family. they, along with the disrespectful, rude haters on this forum can all go fuck themselves, as far as im concerned.

why are you insinuating that i must "offer something", to the "chilean people"? can a man and his family live alone in peace? sustaining themselves and asking nothing form society in return? are you some sort of communist that thinks i must work on some sort of collective plantation, whether it be urban or rural? just because you are trapped in an endless cycle of long work days and bills, doesnt mean everyone else has to be also. and what makes you think that operating a farm, offers nothing to society? does society not require food? does food not grow from the land? mustnt farmers operate those farms? im not sure if you even realise the pointlessness in your own commentary, you collectivist fool. where do you think all of the meat you eat at mcdonalds comes from? santiago? you have the rural communities to thank for all of your food, and i dont owe society anything anyways. its perfectly acceptable to atain 100 percent self reliance and sustainability. not only is it acceptable, it is NECESSARY. modern industrial civilization is using something like 2.6 times the anually renewable resources of this planet... maybe im not the problem, maybe you are?

===========================

"No disrespect but you will be more at ease and more doable by choosing Paraguay over Chile. In order to emigrate to Patagonia, you will need more money. Just building a shack and buying enough woods to prepare for the coldest winter to come and bringing your pregnant wife over there to face hardship. Chile's Patagonia will eat you two alive in my humble opinion. You can not bring your " old used car" there so prepare to buy one once there to live in. With your stated frugal amount of finance in hand, may be impossible to even seek relocating there."

buying wood? what kind of pussy ass little bitch would actually buy firewood... when surrounded by forest? oh... the "MEN" who frequent this forum... gotcha. i have lived outdoors during winter... and mild patagonia will eat me alive? mmkay. i think you are projecting your own issues onto me. i think you probably have never stepped foot outside. i never said i have an old used car.

i said i have a used car... is that a problem? do you have something against people who drive used cars?

i will decide what is possible or impossible for my family, not you.

===========================

"In your situation I would look for somewhere in the US. At least you would have some rights, and a safety net of sorts if things don't work out. Its not as if there is any lack of suitable space. And you have a better chance of not getting ripped off by the swarms of scam artists here who come out of the woodwork whenever the scent of money is in the air.
If you think you would somehow be more "free" than where you are currently, think again."

thats nice, but i didnt ask about the US. sorry... rights? less free in chile? how so?

===========================

"first thing you need to do is splurge on some spaces in your text. I know they are expensive, but they will pay you back big time in terms of people being able to parse your text in to bite size problems to provide suggestions."
yea, I stopped trying to read that block of text at " ...1 week pregnant wife to patagonia to live on a sheep farm. Divorce in Chile is fairly new. There are very tight restrictions on the allowable grounds for divorce. I am almost certain I recall seeing that one included in the law. Seriously, one, just one, emergency evacuation of your wife to see a specialist in Santiago related to the pregnancy (yea, Santiago is your next stop in an emergency for real specialist in the country), it will cost you at least 4 times your entire budget (doing it on the cheap)"

im sensing some hostility... is everything ok? are you mad? i think its funny that you would bring my wife into the conversation and make insinuations about her willingness to participate in my dream, and even her love of me. the funniest thing about it is just how arrogant and pompous you are, to not even be able to imagine a woman who might be interested in somone other than a metrosexual, scrawny, femenine, urbanised, pansy ass, greedy, hyper-capitalist, illiterate loser like yourself. suffice it to say that this has been her dream longer than it has even been mine, if anyone is getting divorced, its probably you... but then again, i doubt youre married in the first place, and if you are, she probably wouldnt stick around if you cut her off from your pile of credit cards. im also taking note of your cracks at my frugality. so you have some sort of problem with frugal people who dont spend money huh? well i guess that sheds some light on what people's worth here on this forum actually means to you. which is what i suspected in the first place... you arent here to help anyone, you are here purely for the cash, and you are hungry for it too! i bet you worship money. also noting how you guys are attempting to crack at me for a lack of punctuation or whatever else, and totally disregarding the glaring, elementary grammatical and spelling errors in the admins texts... he doesnt even know the difference between there, and their, and doesnt even know how to spell their... what a retard.

and why are you giving people financial advice on this forum anyways? you think youre some kind of authority on the topic? you cant even imagine a lifestyle that is anything less than opulent, full of expensive gadgets, large accomadations, many expensive service plans etc. and you are going to give me advice on how to live cheaply in chile? what a joke. youre a joke. so is this forum. the goal of this forum is obviously not to educate and enlighten possible expats on how to move themselves to chile sucessfully, the goal of this forum is keep people ignorant so that you may try to sell your "consultation" services to them, at fucking astronomical prices. i would never be stupid enough to hire somone who doesnt know the difference between their, and there, to direct me in moving internationally, or fr any other reason for that matter.

so much hostility directed at me for what? because i am saving my money to achieve my family's offgrid lifestyle dream? you people have serious issues. you seem like really terrible people, and im sure you are. unbelievable.

so are you trying to say that rural residents shouldnt have children because a hospital may be far away? or maybe i should stay in this apartment, slaving my life away, so that i can be next to a hospital for the rest of my life? oh... you figured that one out already though... you dont have to slave away and work for anything, you can just sit at home and talk shit to people on an internet forum, where you ban discussion of services that you offer, from alternative sources, and rake in a killing, economically preying on ignorant would-be expats who dont understand how to get things accomplished in chilean society. gotchaaaa.

pro-tip to admin... before you talk about others' grammatical or spelling issues, please correct your own, elementary level mistakes.

im interested to see whether or not you actually have the BALLS to not ban me, leave this critical post of you up, and ATTEMPT to refute anything i said to you. then again, im really not intersted to read the misspelled, broken english ramblings of a self appointed professional, cologne drenched, metrosexual faggot anyways.

========================

"Can you imagine this guy's wife's parents reading that post."

excuse me? she is very proud of me, i have taken my GF out of her dead end small town, moved her to a city, literally put her through school and housed her, helped her be a better person, helped her save tons of money so that we can make something of our lives, and now given her mother grandkids... how dare you mother fucker. you slimy little fucking worms would NEVER... NEVER say HALF this shit you have said to me on this forum, to my face. you guys are tremendous assholes and scumbags. i think youre the types of people who beat homeless people in the streets. i think you guys have gone astray from the natural world, and humanities roots, and i think youre tremendously socially engineered, just like americans. brainwashed from birth to work your fingers to the bone until death, and buying tons of useless shit along the way. its hard for me to believe how spiteful everyone is, just because somone showed interest in an alternative lifestyle to the materialistic, consumeristic, backwards regressive, self centered, wasteful, destructive, modern "civilized" lifestyle that you all subscribe to.
Wow, spambush is coming back in full force! Thought you were asking advices and suggestions from these forumites..
Men, be humble and listen to these Chile residing veterans and if you wanting to keep participating in allchile forum, you should be a bit more respectful to the owner of this forum. Plus, he offers many good advises in financial matters regarding living in Chile. "old car, er used car" topic, you can not bring in a "used car" to Chile, unless you are returning Chilean national, period. You can import your used car on a "temporary" basis up to 3 month at time then take it out then re-enter and get another 3 months permit. Too much hassle so be prepare to buy a used car registered already in Chile.
HybridAmbassador. Toyota Hybrid system for helping climate change.

john
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Re: buying land in patagonia

Post by john » Thu Jun 02, 2016 6:31 pm

spambush wrote:
"Can you imagine this guy's wife's parents reading that post."

excuse me? she is very proud of me, i have taken my GF out of her dead end small town, moved her to a city, literally put her through school and housed her, helped her be a better person, helped her save tons of money so that we can make something of our lives, and now given her mother grandkids...
Your comments are more akin to bondage than an equal partnership.
One must care about a world one will not see.
--- Bertrand Russell

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