TRAVEL ALERT -New rebellion in the patagonia: Aysén

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Afterburner
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Re: New rebellion in the patagonia: Aysén

Post by Afterburner » Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:18 am

patagoniax wrote:They are citing the example of the 2011 rebellion in Magallanes, which cost the region over 14 million dollars and the lives of two people, and resulted in the government implementing the Law of Internal Security, which is the precursor for installation of martial law and the use of the armed forces in quelling civil disturbances. Tourists are trapped here, unable to escape from the affected area. The Ayseños are saying that's a great example for their region to follow...
Do you reckon it's going to escalate?

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Re: New rebellion in the patagonia: Aysén

Post by bearshapedsphere » Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:26 pm

Holy crap! thanks for keeping us apprised from far away. Do you think it's part of ongoing discontent related to Santiaguinos believing Santiago is Chile, and forgetting about the other half of the population?
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Re: TRAVEL ALERT -New rebellion in the patagonia: Aysén

Post by Vicki and Greg Lansen » Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:09 pm

Is there another side to this coflict? It is interesting that the first accusation in the Panama conflict (last week, yet ongoing..) was that outsiders and opposition to the power in power, egged on the indigenous protesters. As if people can't be pissed off unless goaded. What kind of evidence is there that Patagonia Sin Repressas was the motivating factor in the current conflict? And Patagonia Sin Repressas gains what by inciting protesters? If it's there, then there it is. Like to see it.

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Re: TRAVEL ALERT -New rebellion in the patagonia: Aysén

Post by Vicki and Greg Lansen » Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:45 pm

I would like to have PX respond to the questions of outside influences in the current protestations. It seems straight out of a play book used over and over to detract from issues that people have, and which are not adequately addressed through democratic measures. Hence, a protest. Protests that disrupt everything from travel and commerce to food and communication. Recently, in Panama, the government shut off all cell phone coverage in the area in and around the area of the protest, yet claimed that the protesters, "domestic terrorists", sabotaged the cell towers. Misinformation abounds, and it goes both ways PX.

I had to postpone my trip to Chile because of the indigenous protests, and am glad to make that sacrifice, despite my gringo community comrades whining over inconvenience during the disturbances. If the government did what it is supposed to do and serve the people instead of special interests, this wouldn't be happening. If the government here, and elsewhere was less inclined to sell off national treasures such as water and minerals to foreign corporations, we might not all find ourselves "inconvenienced". When people feel unheard and unrepresented, this is what RIGHTLY happens

WHAT EVIDENCE DO YOU HAVE THAT PATAGONIA SIN REPRESSAS OR ANY OTHER OUTSIDE ORGANIZATION IS BEHIND THIS PROTEST. Show me the money.

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FrankPintor
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Re: TRAVEL ALERT -New rebellion in the patagonia: Aysén

Post by FrankPintor » Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:46 pm

Just to inject an actual random fact or two into the monologue (oops, I mean "debate") to date: the Mayor of Puerto Aysén is certainly a member of the Chilean Socialist Party, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Party_of_Chile, generally considered social-democratic according to western European convention.

Her politics and those of her party might well be regarded as being somewhat to the left of, say, Attila the Hun; members of her party have included Michelle Bachelet and Ricardo Lagos, both internationally renowned for... umm well, actually governing Chile for several years. At least one of them may have won the presidency with less that 50% of the vote in at least one of the voting rounds. :wink:

The Mayor and members of her party may not be on the right side of this argument, but mentioning that the Mayor or her party might be allied with the Chilean Communist Party in one or more of Chile's many regions doesn't make her communist, though that is certainly the chamullenta (*) impression made by putting one sub-clause conveniently close to another.

* Chamullo: Palabrería que tiene el propósito de impresionar o convencer (in other words misinformation and disinformation. This forum does deserve better than a knee-jerk)
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Re: TRAVEL ALERT -New rebellion in the patagonia: Aysén

Post by Vicki and Greg Lansen » Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:57 pm

The photos posted show protest banners re: hydros.
So the protests are about the hydros, and not about the whining Chilenos about medical care, gas prices, housing and universities? Then if that is so, if it is about the hydros, I stand corrected. And in solidarity.

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Re: TRAVEL ALERT -New rebellion in the patagonia: Aysén

Post by Vicki and Greg Lansen » Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:05 am

Living in a foreign land is interesting and enlightening if you approach it without the old English Imperialism ideal of supremacy. Approaching it from the old English Imperialism side brings you to a position of imagined superiority and deep internal insecurities and fear, a sense of being inconvenienced by the locals way of dealing, or not dealing with issues that affect you and them. Approaching it from the view of "this is their country and I am a guest" produces a much better outcome. Might not be the outcome you wish for, but it is a better outcome. You live there and adapt, or you live there and bitch the rest of your life, or you leave.

No offense meant to current-day Englishman...just reference to the old Colonialism ideals which were brutish and unproductive in the long run.

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momof3
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Re: TRAVEL ALERT -New rebellion in the patagonia: Aysén

Post by momof3 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:21 am

Never a dull moment PX
We agree to disagree.

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Re: TRAVEL ALERT -New rebellion in the patagonia: Aysén

Post by AysenKiwi » Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:36 am

Dude, if you want to set yourself up as some kind of expert on the Aysen Region and it's troubles, at least get your basic facts straight. The population of Coyhaique is 45,000, not 14,000.
This kind of mindless scaremongering and prejudice is irresponsible and frankly pathetic. Grow up.

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Re: TRAVEL ALERT -New rebellion in the patagonia: Aysén

Post by Vicki and Greg Lansen » Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:39 am

Are the tourists actual hostages? Taken by force, locked up, held in exchange for money or other goods? Or are these foreign nationals simply caught up in the protests? Similarly, Costa Ricans traveling on a tour bus in Panama during the current protests were not able to return to Costa Rica because of closed roads. Officials claimed the Costa Ricans were "hostages" while that could not be further from the truth. The bus was moved to an area outside the main protest fray, away from the bullets and tear gas being used by the national police...in other words, out of harms way until they could be safely sent on their way. That seems a better way to handle tourists who get caught in a protest. If I am incorrect and tourists were dragged away, locked up and demands made for their release, I stand corrected.

It seems a common tactic to disseminate misinformation in an effort to turn would-be supporters against the protesters and their cause. Straight out of a Karl Rove play book.

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Re: TRAVEL ALERT -New rebellion in the patagonia: Aysén

Post by zer0nz » Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:52 pm

patagoniax wrote:.
Minister of the Interior Hinzpeter has reviewed the demands of the Ayseño coalition that includes Patagonia Sin Represas and fishermen. Their demands included the "regionalisation" of resources for Aysén. Under such regionalisation, the copper resources of the north would cease to be national but would instead belong to the individual northern regions, and in Aysén similar resources, including fisheries, would be controlled by regional rather than present national agencies. Over-fishing in the Aysén region has depleted fish stocks and the national government has reduced catch quotas. Ayseño fishermen object to the government's plan for fishery conservation.

Hinzpeter told the Aysen organisations to "get real" ( his words: "dialogar con realismo"). He insisted that such regionalisation was not possible and would not be considered. Hinzpeter, whose office includes national law enforcement, has also coordinated the sending of additional Carabinero riot police to the region, as mentioned in a prior post. Given the present impasse on several key issues, it appears at this time that potentially violent confrontations between the local regionalist coalition and the government may be expected to occur during the coming days, unless mechanisms are found to release some of the pressure.
Mmmm, i was about to ask why your not out there protesting with the patagonia without damns group until i re read your signature that says patagonia without shelves... so now im wondering what the hell do you mean patagonia without shelves?

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Re: TRAVEL ALERT -New rebellion in the patagonia: Aysén

Post by wiscondinavian » Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:15 pm

Oh look PX, you're famous. AKA: you seem to have published an article in an RSS feed that I'm subscribed to.

http://matadornetwork.com/change/protes ... gle+Reader

Just going out on a limb assuming that the patigoniax that published this article about Aysen is the same patigoniax in the forum talking about Aysen...

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