how to use Catastro de Bienes Nacionales?

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proger
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how to use Catastro de Bienes Nacionales?

Post by proger » Fri May 28, 2021 8:50 pm

I'm trying to find out via de map in Catastro.cl of any available terreno (fiscal o privado).

I've failed so far, cant get any info from the map app on the site, only via ROL.

Is there any way to see those rural lots on the map? im sure there is so many ,just dont know how to make them available to purchase.

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Re: how to use Catastro de Bienes Nacionales?

Post by admin » Sat May 29, 2021 9:55 am

what is it you are trying to do?
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proger
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Re: how to use Catastro de Bienes Nacionales?

Post by proger » Sat May 29, 2021 2:48 pm

hey admin, well its kinda tricky to explain from a far but... the closest example i can give is urugauy coneat index map, where you can locate almost any rural terrain in the country and get full details about it.
http://web.renare.gub.uy/js/visores/coneat/

if you have # padron{#ROL in chile} search it and youl get location and details, in that way its possible to view also the surrounding lots...

ANYHOW, the idea is to get a detailed view of chile rural terrenos and by that getting better idea if the land is good for or not...

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Re: how to use Catastro de Bienes Nacionales?

Post by admin » Sat May 29, 2021 5:10 pm

proger wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 2:48 pm
hey admin, well its kinda tricky to explain from a far but... the closest example i can give is urugauy coneat index map, where you can locate almost any rural terrain in the country and get full details about it.
http://web.renare.gub.uy/js/visores/coneat/

if you have # padron{#ROL in chile} search it and youl get location and details, in that way its possible to view also the surrounding lots...

ANYHOW, the idea is to get a detailed view of chile rural terrenos and by that getting better idea if the land is good for or not...
:lol: ooooooo, haaaaaaaaaa. :lol: :lol:

Hay, I am impressed if the government maps even show the country of Chile (well, some times); forget trying to somehow do an online search for say individual parcel or plots in rural areas with any sort of accuracy.

I have literally road a horse over a mountain, that did not officially exist. No title. No map. never surveyed. something like 1,000+ hectares, that were MIA.

There are a million reasons why that would at best just be a general starting point; but, do not depend on it. If you find something, think of it as a clue, indicating, that there MIGHT BE something there.
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proger
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Re: how to use Catastro de Bienes Nacionales?

Post by proger » Sat May 29, 2021 8:44 pm

didnt quite got ya, your saying there no such thing in chile?

if im going to a remote area that I like how can i buy it if its not own by private person?

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Re: how to use Catastro de Bienes Nacionales?

Post by nwdiver » Sun May 30, 2021 12:43 am

proger wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 8:44 pm
didnt quite got ya, your saying there no such thing in chile?

if im going to a remote area that I like how can i buy it if its not own by private person?
Hire a lawyer to do the search for you.

I had a piece of property that used a river as a boundary, turned out the property was twice the size that we bought, over the 230 years of recorded ownership the river changed course, the title always used it as the boundary, with topography as complex as Chile old surveys were mostly done in town not the field……
It's all about the wine.

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Re: how to use Catastro de Bienes Nacionales?

Post by admin » Sun May 30, 2021 8:33 am

proger wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 8:44 pm
didnt quite got ya, your saying there no such thing in chile?

if im going to a remote area that I like how can i buy it if its not own by private person?
yes, essentially there is no such "online" system; well, none that is remotely accurate.

The regional property registries are where the real information is at, and those searches have to be done one property at a time. They have the official plot / survey maps, but even those often do not square with legal descriptions of the property titles, the tax ROL numbers, etc, for various historical reasons.

Then there are regional "colonization laws" that can apply. For example there are different ones, for different parts of the Patagonia.

In the Patagonia it is very common for people to have a right to a property under "homestead" laws, but not have had the official title registered. They often will live on a property for decades, sometimes generations, and simply never got around to it. It would show up as government owned property.
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From USA and outside Chile dial 1-917-727-5985 (U.S.), in Chile dial 65 2 42 1024 or by cell 747 97974.

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Re: how to use Catastro de Bienes Nacionales?

Post by admin » Sun May 30, 2021 8:57 am

nwdiver wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 12:43 am
proger wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 8:44 pm
didnt quite got ya, your saying there no such thing in chile?

if im going to a remote area that I like how can i buy it if its not own by private person?
Hire a lawyer to do the search for you.

I had a piece of property that used a river as a boundary, turned out the property was twice the size that we bought, over the 230 years of recorded ownership the river changed course, the title always used it as the boundary, with topography as complex as Chile old surveys were mostly done in town not the field……
yea, we have "found" a lot of extra land over the years We have even "created" from scratch an entire 10 hectare property and title out of land deposited at a confluence of two rivers. Client fell in love with a property that did not officially exist. It was a beucratic mess to get it surveyed and registered. As I recall, it took like 3 years, but it was totally possible.

But it is also super common in the Patagonia for example an old rancher to say, "my land starts from the peak of that mountain, and goes west".

well, no one has ever been to the peak of that mountain to actually survey it. When it was registered, it simply was not worth bothering to survey it properly because the land was not worth anything. a few hundred hectares one way or the other was no big deal. Now it is a big deal, as that could be millions of dollars in lands. Even more common is for that land to show-up on multiple titles, as again no one bothered to climb the mountain to survey when the neighboring properties were registered. That same 50, 100, or 200 hectares, might be counted half a dozen times, on different titles. essentially, in certain places, the country is bigger on paper than in physical geography.

My favorite was the hand written title from the 1800s with dozens of hand written sales, inheritances, and other things over the generations written in the margins, with a property line marker "east of the old rotten tree".

Well, how much of that tree stump do you think is left?

We had to take a 4 hour boat ride across a fjord in winter to have a gander at what was left of that tree stump. not much.

No machine is going to be able to make sense out of that, because humans have trouble making sense out of that. It became a game in our office, passing around that title with a magnifying glass, to see what everyone thought they could make out of those scribbles in the margins of that title.
Spencer Global Chile: Legal, relocation, and Investment assistance in Chile.
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From USA and outside Chile dial 1-917-727-5985 (U.S.), in Chile dial 65 2 42 1024 or by cell 747 97974.

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Re: how to use Catastro de Bienes Nacionales?

Post by admin » Sun May 30, 2021 9:55 am

Here is a basic problem in Chile. I will try to explain this without making it even more confusing.

You have what I term "inclusive" and "exclusive" legal descriptions in property titles in Chile.

So, for example, say you find property that is 100 hectares, mas o menos. If the property legal description says something like "100 hectares lot A, out of property bla, bla, bla that is 1000 hectares" , that is all you get. It is defined, relative to the size of the parent property title, even if that parent property title in fact turns out to be an " inclusive" legal description and larger than 1000 hectares, because that is all the seller granted you a right to own. most parceliations in Chile will be described this way, as a bunch of 5,000 meter lots out of say a 100 hectares. keeps the potential problems manageable for the seller when they do a subdivision of the bigger property.

However, there is a two dimensional vs. three demenational problem.

For example, I have a property that is about two hectares. It is on relatively steep hill. It is defined by an inclusive property description. I have never measured it, because I have never taken the time to climb the hill to the other property line. I am almost certain it is more than two hectares. The legal descriptions sets out property line markers / boundary definitions, and then says something like "approximately 2 hectares". I don't really care sufficiently to bother measuring it. I got a sweet deal on it. perhaps someday, just out of curiosity, I might.

well, just about anyone standing at the bottom and looking at the big tree that is at the other boundry would say, "no way is that just two hectares".

My best guess, is there is another at least 5,000 square meters of extra land. There is not only the hill, but several flat spots, each about a 1000 or two thousand meters. If that is so, it is all my land. It is "included" or "inclusive" of that extra land.

Might just be an optical illusion, as you stand at the bottom and look up. I might have less than two hectares for all I know, but pretty certain it is larger.

same thing happens with properties that have for instance a river as a boarder, that moves around. sometimes you gain some land. sometimes you loose some land.

so, you could say have a 100 hectare property in two dimensions, and if there is a big hill in the middle, that let's say is 200 hectares of surface area (like a devil's tower), as long the legal description is an "inclusive" title, it is all yours.
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From USA and outside Chile dial 1-917-727-5985 (U.S.), in Chile dial 65 2 42 1024 or by cell 747 97974.

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Re: how to use Catastro de Bienes Nacionales?

Post by mem » Tue Jun 01, 2021 9:11 am

The flat Kansas like topology of Uruguay and centralized shape probably lends itself to an exhaustive cataloguing

But as other mentioned the terrain of Chile is far more varied and out of reach (a peak in the distance that noone has summited that is supposed to be a land marker).

Well peaks dont exist in Uruguay :D
It's like comparing a tennis court to "the floor is lava" advanced 4D championship course lol

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Re: how to use Catastro de Bienes Nacionales?

Post by admin » Tue Jun 01, 2021 12:05 pm

mem wrote:
Tue Jun 01, 2021 9:11 am
The flat Kansas like topology of Uruguay and centralized shape probably lends itself to an exhaustive cataloguing

But as other mentioned the terrain of Chile is far more varied and out of reach (a peak in the distance that noone has summited that is supposed to be a land marker).

Well peaks dont exist in Uruguay :D
It's like comparing a tennis court to "the floor is lava" advanced 4D championship course lol
Try the Argentina Pampas for fascinating geography. Directions go something like, "drive 500 km due south then hang a left at the herd of Guanacos, then in 200 km hang a right at the Pack of Nandu, finally turn south again at the random political sign that says 'Las Malvinas es Argentina' ".

There is not much else by way of land marks out there. That might be one of the only places I have ever used the compass in my jeep.
Spencer Global Chile: Legal, relocation, and Investment assistance in Chile.
For more information visit: https://www.spencerglobal.com

From USA and outside Chile dial 1-917-727-5985 (U.S.), in Chile dial 65 2 42 1024 or by cell 747 97974.

proger
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Re: how to use Catastro de Bienes Nacionales?

Post by proger » Tue Jun 01, 2021 7:56 pm

mem wrote:
Tue Jun 01, 2021 9:11 am
The flat Kansas like topology of Uruguay and centralized shape probably lends itself to an exhaustive cataloguing

But as other mentioned the terrain of Chile is far more varied and out of reach (a peak in the distance that noone has summited that is supposed to be a land marker).

Well peaks dont exist in Uruguay :D
It's like comparing a tennis court to "the floor is lava" advanced 4D championship course lol
claro.
but im not talking about those extreme peaks lots.
just common country side you know
for example al interior de ovalle there is many flat land aobut 2-3 hours from the city. where do i need to go in order the find more details, bienes naiconales in ovalle?

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