FBAR reporting and AFP&AFC

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EastPoe
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FBAR reporting and AFP&AFC

Post by EastPoe » Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:27 pm

This applies only to Usanians, although others may find it interesting!

My apologies if this is in the wrong forum. I have just discovered that I should have been reporting my bank account on the FBAR. Online, various comentators and experts say that retirement funds which are essentially mutual funds must also be reported and it does not matter how they are regarded in their respective countries. However I cannot find any definitive answer about AFP and AFC accounts. The totals of (a) my bank account plus AFP or (b) my bank account plus AFC or (c) my bank account plus AFP and AFC each exceed USD10.000.

So, should I report my AFP on the FBAR?
Should I report my AFC on the FBAR?

This will mean going back 6 years and filing FBARs late for each year. Has anyone else done this, in respect specifically of AFP & AFC? What happened?

Thanks to all.

jamess12
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Re: FBAR reporting and AFP&AFC

Post by jamess12 » Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:20 pm

EastPoe,
This is basically a US tax and criminal law question. That's right even though someone may have accidentally not reported a bank account (which is very clearly covered by FBAR), you at least have the risk of prosecution. You really should consider talking to a lawyer who specializes in offshore reporting corrections. This is the time to consider spending some of your savings for that purpose rather than relying on any forum members.

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eeuunikkeiexpat
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Re: FBAR reporting and AFP&AFC

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:24 pm

Time's a tickin',
The FBAR is an annual report, due April 15 following the calendar year reported.

You’re allowed an automatic extension to October 15 if you fail to meet the FBAR annual due date of April 15.
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eeuunikkeiexpat
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Re: FBAR reporting and AFP&AFC

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:27 pm

Remember this is a two part issue:

Schedule B on your 1040 (IRS) and possibly FATCA related 1040 forms depending on amounts, entities, etc.
FBAR (FINCEN)
There are two ways to be fooled.

One is to believe what isn't true;

the other is to refuse to believe what is true.

- Søren Kierkegaard

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admin
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Re: FBAR reporting and AFP&AFC

Post by admin » Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:01 pm

The AFPs were specifically excluded as I recall from the reporting requirment.
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EastPoe
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Re: FBAR reporting and AFP&AFC

Post by EastPoe » Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:34 pm

That is very helpful - where can I find the info? My research says to make sure you have documentation so of there is an "enquiry" up to six years later, you can support whatever you reported six years earlier. Tomorrow I am off to ask Santander about bank account balances for an account I closed three years ago!!

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Re: FBAR reporting and AFP&AFC

Post by admin » Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:42 pm

EastPoe wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:34 pm
That is very helpful - where can I find the info? My research says to make sure you have documentation so of there is an "enquiry" up to six years later, you can support whatever you reported six years earlier. Tomorrow I am off to ask Santander about bank account balances for an account I closed three years ago!!
yea, sorry that is where our ability to provide advice related to the U.S. tax system ends. You will need to contact a licensed tax expert in the United States.
Spencer Global Chile: Legal, relocation, and Investment assistance in Chile.
For more information visit: https://www.spencerglobal.com

From USA and outside Chile dial 1-917-727-5985 (U.S.), in Chile dial 65 2 42 1024 or by cell 747 97974.

EastPoe
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Re: FBAR reporting and AFP&AFC

Post by EastPoe » Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:54 pm

Unfortunately they do not know since it is country-specific.

Zenth
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Re: FBAR reporting and AFP&AFC

Post by Zenth » Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:29 pm

FBRA's must be filed on line with FinCEN, the Financial Crimes Reporting Network. Sounds ominous but most filers, late or not, breathe the clean air of freedom. You may not be able to file early years. There are a few programs in place to bring yourself into compliance with very little or no penalties. Check the boxes on the 1040 Schedule B and include a Form 8938 if required. The 8938 requirements are different than the FBAR. Also, FBAR goes to the US Treasury, the 1040 to the IRS.
First time FBAR filers get scrutiny as well as prior year filers. If your balances are significantly above the minimums, it's worth a few dollars to speak with a US tax professional, a CPA or attorney. You probably should not rely on the local office of a US based firm. Find one that deals with foreign source income. That's what it is to a US person even if you consider it your usual account. The internet is good and it will let you read what they have written on the subject. I will not make a recommendation, but if you want to message me, I can tell you if I've heard of them and if you're on the right track.

EastPoe
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Re: FBAR reporting and AFP&AFC

Post by EastPoe » Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:09 am

Thanks Zenth - and my question about AFPs?

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Re: FBAR reporting and AFP&AFC

Post by Zenth » Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:25 am

For FBAR purposes, you're supposed to report every account over which you have ownership of or signature authority that exceeds $10K anytime during the year. This has no effect on taxation. I don't know what the IRS thinks about AFP's. That's a question for a tax pro.

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eeuunikkeiexpat
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Re: FBAR reporting and AFP&AFC

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:57 pm

NO it is the aggregate combined value of all accounts not the value of individual accounts.
There are two ways to be fooled.

One is to believe what isn't true;

the other is to refuse to believe what is true.

- Søren Kierkegaard

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