real estate

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tiagoabner
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Re: real estate

Post by tiagoabner » Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:00 pm

for31 wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:42 pm
What kind of income in Chile does one need to buy a property of ~10.000 UF ?
A 30-year mortgage for a 10.000 UF apartment with 20% down payment would start at roughly $1.000.000 per month. So you would need 3-4 million per month of combined household income to finance it.
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Re: real estate

Post by admin » Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:06 pm

for31 wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:42 pm
Thanks for such a detailed reply ! However, I am still confused. Are you trying to say that majority of Chilean economy is in a shady business ? ;) In other words, do you think the mentioned household income of 2.500.000 CLP is grossly underestimated by the government ? I totally understand accepted market value of the property, however the question is - where people get the money to buy real estate right now ? I hardly believe majority just sell whatever assets they've got and re-invest in another real estate. Who are those thousands of people buying 10000+ UF apartments in Vitacura or Las Condes ? Miners do have good salaries indeed, but I am not sure they (salaries) are at the level of 10.000.000 CLP per month (with the exception of upper management, I guess). Still curious ..

Just on practical side, what kind of income in Chile does one need to buy a property of ~10.000 UF ?
This thread pretty much covers it:
viewtopic.php?t=16758#p186262
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hlf2888
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Re: real estate

Post by hlf2888 » Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:17 pm

Regions 6 and 7 have become world class wine regions in Chile. In CNN's 2020 list of the top ten vineyards in the world, Chile was the only country that had 2 entries in the top ten.

I had a friend who was curious about Chilean vineyard prices in April, 2020. I found one in the 6th region, 778 hectares, only 360 hectares in production, (vineyards, fruit and nuts) It was asking 21.5 M US. When I emailed the broker a week later for more details, it was sold. Imagine, 21.5 million US in a pandemic? I guess the value of a year round growing season and nine months of sunshine is timeless.

In answer to ernest65, the larger the lot, the lower the price per hectare.

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nwdiver
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Re: real estate

Post by nwdiver » Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:33 pm

hlf2888 wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:17 pm
Regions 6 and 7 have become world class wine regions in Chile. In CNN's 2020 list of the top ten vineyards in the world, Chile was the only country that had 2 entries in the top ten.

I had a friend who was curious about Chilean vineyard prices in April, 2020. I found one listed with Sotheby's in the 6th region, 778 hectares, only 360 hectares in production, (vineyards, fruit and nuts) It was asking 21.5 M US. When I emailed the broker a week later for more details, it was sold. Imagine, 21.5 million US in a pandemic? I guess the value of a year round growing season and nine months of sunshine is timeless.

In answer to ernest65, the larger the lot, the lower the price per hectare.

It’s all about the water, the 360 hectares under vine is probably the max for the property based on its water rights, 778 hectares of land will have about $7-8M worth of water connected to it in the 6th regions.......
It's all about the wine.

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hlf2888
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Re: real estate

Post by hlf2888 » Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:57 pm

nwdiver wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:33 pm
hlf2888 wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:17 pm
Regions 6 and 7 have become world class wine regions in Chile. In CNN's 2020 list of the top ten vineyards in the world, Chile was the only country that had 2 entries in the top ten.

I had a friend who was curious about Chilean vineyard prices in April, 2020. I found one listed with Sotheby's in the 6th region, 778 hectares, only 360 hectares in production, (vineyards, fruit and nuts) It was asking 21.5 M US. When I emailed the broker a week later for more details, it was sold. Imagine, 21.5 million US in a pandemic? I guess the value of a year round growing season and nine months of sunshine is timeless.

In answer to ernest65, the larger the lot, the lower the price per hectare.

It’s all about the water, the 360 hectares under vine is probably the max for the property based on its water rights, 778 hectares of land will have about $7-8M worth of water connected to it in the 6th regions.......
NWDiver From the description

" Actualmente cuenta con explotación vitícola, agrícola y frutícola, incluyendo 136 hectáreas plantadas de viñas
viníferas (87,52 Has en planos y 48,98 en laderas de los cerros), 32 hectáreas de huertos frutales (10 Has de Perales,
12 Has de Nogales Chandler y 10 Has de Cerezos) y 191 hectáreas de cultivos de temporada. Las otras 419 hectáreas
corresponden a cerros."

I am thinking perhaps the balance of the property being hilly could be a stronger variable of limitation, more than the water. Regions 6 and 7 have more water than region 5. Are you in region 5?

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nwdiver
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Re: real estate

Post by nwdiver » Thu Oct 08, 2020 2:24 am

6 on the coast
It's all about the wine.

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hlf2888
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Re: real estate

Post by hlf2888 » Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:08 am

Maybe the concept of land value has evolved slower in Chile than in other countries. At least away from the megacities. After the big quake of 2010 for example. A lot of the rural people were living in adobe houses which were badly damaged by the quake. The government offered them new houses in town which most accepted. A house in town was considered a step up in the social ladder. Their land with the rubble of their homes was not perceived as that valuable and was probably sold under value to the rich.

And then there is lack of motivation to sell. No land taxes in the rural areas, people just hold on forever to barren land. In my search for my friend I came across 148 hectares which the owners were "thinking' of selling. Probably some stubborn old patriarch or matriarch making the decisions, doing things the "old" way. They would not give a price. Just make an offer, they said. It is obvious they were not serious, they just wanted to know the value.

And realtors, what a disappointment. No licensing, no regulation, no insurance. Highly unprofessional, they don't even want to give an estimate without a guarantee of a listing. Quite different from NA. It is the Wild West in many ways.

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hlf2888
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Re: real estate

Post by hlf2888 » Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:10 am

nwdiver wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 2:24 am
6 on the coast
As you know, the further south you go, the more rain. I would guess that the seventh region will overtake the sixth for vineyards over the next decade.

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fraggle092
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Re: real estate

Post by fraggle092 » Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:26 am

for31 wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:42 pm
Thanks for such a detailed reply ! However, I am still confused. Are you trying to say that majority of Chilean economy is in a shady business ? ;) In other words, do you think the mentioned household income of 2.500.000 CLP is grossly underestimated by the government ? I totally understand accepted market value of the property, however the question is - where people get the money to buy real estate right now ? I hardly believe majority just sell whatever assets they've got and re-invest in another real estate. Who are those thousands of people buying 10000+ UF apartments in Vitacura or Las Condes ? Miners do have good salaries indeed, but I am not sure they (salaries) are at the level of 10.000.000 CLP per month (with the exception of upper management, I guess). Still curious ..
Although the Banks must know, I have never understood where the money comes from either.
Holiday homes and apartments, the Malls thronged with consumers (in pre shit-show days, at least), multi-car households including at least one big expensive SUV for "status".
They can't all be "public servants", can they?
My guess is that the Black Economy is much larger than is generally admitted, and I know a lot of small businesses that work cash-only.
Bienvenidos a Chaqueteo City.

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passport
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Re: real estate

Post by passport » Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:31 am

Don't forget the liberal use of consumer credit

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fraggle092
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Re: real estate

Post by fraggle092 » Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:36 am

passport wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:31 am
Don't forget the liberal use of consumer credit
Very true, but loans need to be paid back sooner or later.
Except for government ones which all seem to be regarded as bonos these days.
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41southchile
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Re: real estate

Post by 41southchile » Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:57 am

hlf2888 wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:08 am


And realtors, what a disappointment. No licensing, no regulation, no insurance. Highly unprofessional, they don't even want to give an estimate without a guarantee of a listing. Quite different from NA. It is the Wild West in many ways.
Hmmm, Yeah, thats putting it mildly/politely, I think my description of them may have been a bit more critical 🤔.
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