'paso a paso" rules for traveling between comunas... and related stuff

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eeuunikkeiexpat
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Re: 'paso a paso" rules for traveling between comunas... and related stuff

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Sat Sep 05, 2020 3:51 pm

thisisreallycomplicated wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 3:26 pm
Does anyone know if there's a permit that allows going to the Correos office? I need to mail something, and check my casilla. Thanks.
When we were under quarantine, the notice at Correos said this was the one to have (though I was there "illegally" under the compra insumos basicos one):

05 Permiso Temporal Individual - Pago de servicios básicos y gestiones
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One is to believe what isn't true;

the other is to refuse to believe what is true.

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Re: 'paso a paso" rules for traveling between comunas... and related stuff

Post by thisisreallycomplicated » Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:27 pm

eeuunikkeiexpat wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 3:51 pm
thisisreallycomplicated wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 3:26 pm
Does anyone know if there's a permit that allows going to the Correos office? I need to mail something, and check my casilla. Thanks.
When we were under quarantine, the notice at Correos said this was the one to have (though I was there "illegally" under the compra insumos basicos one):

05 Permiso Temporal Individual - Pago de servicios básicos y gestiones
Thanks, that's what I was thinking. But none of these motivos seemed to work, so I wasn't sure.
Motivo
* Pagos
* Gestiones en Banco
* Cobro de Pensión
* Gestiones en Notaría
* Gestiones en Cooperativas de Ahorro y Crédito u otras Instituciones Financieras
* Subsidios o beneficios estatales o municipales
* Cobro Seguro de Cesantía
* Obtención de ClaveÚnica
* Trámites en Registro Civil e Identificación
* Asistencia a plantas de revisión técnica
Any idea which one(s) I should check off? Or if anyone cares? Last time I went to Coquimbo they were asking to see permits, so they might be checking now.
“Now it’s conspiracy – they’ve made that something that should not even be entertained for a minute, that powerful people might get together and have a plan. Doesn’t happen, you’re a kook, you’re a conspiracy buff!” – George Carlin

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eeuunikkeiexpat
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Re: 'paso a paso" rules for traveling between comunas... and related stuff

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:39 pm

thisisreallycomplicated wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:27 pm
eeuunikkeiexpat wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 3:51 pm
thisisreallycomplicated wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 3:26 pm
Does anyone know if there's a permit that allows going to the Correos office? I need to mail something, and check my casilla. Thanks.
When we were under quarantine, the notice at Correos said this was the one to have (though I was there "illegally" under the compra insumos basicos one):

05 Permiso Temporal Individual - Pago de servicios básicos y gestiones
Thanks, that's what I was thinking. But none of these motivos seemed to work, so I wasn't sure.
Motivo
* Pagos
* Gestiones en Banco
* Cobro de Pensión
* Gestiones en Notaría
* Gestiones en Cooperativas de Ahorro y Crédito u otras Instituciones Financieras
* Subsidios o beneficios estatales o municipales
* Cobro Seguro de Cesantía
* Obtención de ClaveÚnica
* Trámites en Registro Civil e Identificación
* Asistencia a plantas de revisión técnica
Any idea which one(s) I should check off? Or if anyone cares? Last time I went to Coquimbo they were asking to see permits, so they might be checking now.
Hmmm...no "Otro"...
My bet is on "Pagos"
There are two ways to be fooled.

One is to believe what isn't true;

the other is to refuse to believe what is true.

- Søren Kierkegaard

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Re: 'paso a paso" rules for traveling between comunas... and related stuff

Post by thisisreallycomplicated » Sat Sep 05, 2020 8:00 pm

eeuunikkeiexpat wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:39 pm
Hmmm...no "Otro"...
My bet is on "Pagos"
That sounds as good as any. What's the worst that can happen if they don't like it?
“Now it’s conspiracy – they’ve made that something that should not even be entertained for a minute, that powerful people might get together and have a plan. Doesn’t happen, you’re a kook, you’re a conspiracy buff!” – George Carlin

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Re: 'paso a paso" rules for traveling between comunas... and related stuff

Post by admin » Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:02 pm

So this is was kind of funny.

I showed this article to my wife.

https://www.biobiochile.cl/noticias/nac ... l-18.shtml

The sub-minister of health claims they have right to enter homes to inspect the 18th parties.

She said something along the lines,"they better come with a swat team and be ready to shoot to kill; because if I am still alive afterwords, they are going to spend the rest of their carriers in court defending themselves against lawsuits".

Oddly, that was almost the same thing my father told the doctors when he was dying and refused any type of extraordinary measures to save him. There was some debate in the family about his mental capacity to make such a decision. So the doctor went to check his mental capacity. My father told the doctors, "I was an attorney for over 35 years. If i am still alive next week, you better have your malpractice insurance payments paid".

That brought that conversation to an abrubt end. I don't think that doctor would have saved my father with a supreme court order.

Now, on a practical level, highly doubt that will be much of thing. They have 400 inspectors. Good luck with that. We got a country that needs to blow off some steam. They are going to be pretty busy. :lol:
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Re: 'paso a paso" rules for traveling between comunas... and related stuff

Post by RuneTheChookcha » Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:38 pm

"..Regarding the audits for the number of people who gather in homes on the occasion of the National Holidays, Rodríguez said that they are empowered to enter the houses, even by force. "We can enter the houses, we can unlock, we can break," he said, ..."

https://www.biobiochile.cl/noticias/nac ... izar.shtml
{ Lunes 14 Septiembre, 2020 | 23:06 }
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Re: 'paso a paso" rules for traveling between comunas... and related stuff

Post by admin » Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:39 am

Think they are pushing their luck with that one.

There are a bunch of cases working their way through the courts right now challenging the governments authority under the constitutional exception; and it is not going well for the government.

The big one is the fines for breaking quarantine. A good friend of ours is the attorney taking a case to the supreme court.

Kind of a long story, but in short the prosecutors because they were overloaded with cases, took an administrative short-cut that deprived people charged with breaking quarantine the right to go to court. Basically they downgraded the charges to just a fine. Sort of like an a unilateral plea agreement.

Which in most cases, someone charged with a crime would probably be happy with that. Still, it made it impossible to challenge the legitimacy of the charges in the first place. Most people probably never occurred to them to challenge downgrading the charges.

Well, our friend defended several dozen people that happened too, realized what the prosecutors were up to, and finally said enophe of that crap and sued the government over it.

To make a long story short, if she wins, the government might need to return millions of dollars in fines they have collected because they improperly failed to follow due process and equality under the law, and a whole mess of other basic rights violations.
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Re: 'paso a paso" rules for traveling between comunas... and related stuff

Post by 41southchile » Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:24 am

admin wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:39 am
Think they are pushing their luck with that one.

There are a bunch of cases working their way through the courts right now challenging the governments authority under the constitutional exception; and it is not going well for the government.

The big one is the fines for breaking quarantine. A good friend of ours is the attorney taking a case to the supreme court.

Kind of a long story, but in short the prosecutors because they were overloaded with cases, took an administrative short-cut that deprived people charged with breaking quarantine the right to go to court. Basically they downgraded the charges to just a fine. Sort of like an a unilateral plea agreement.

Which in most cases, someone charged with a crime would probably be happy with that. Still, it made it impossible to challenge the legitimacy of the charges in the first place. Most people probably never occurred to them to challenge downgrading the charges.

Well, our friend defended several dozen people that happened too, realized what the prosecutors were up to, and finally said enophe of that crap and sued the government over it.

To make a long story short, if she wins, the government might need to return millions of dollars in fines they have collected because they improperly failed to follow due process and equality under the law, and a whole mess of other basic rights violations.
Yeah that doesn't sound surprising, decisions made quickly or in haste by governments nearly always turn out messy. Its similar in a few other countries Ive read about recently, governments have been acting unlawfully and now they are being pulled up on it. See how they react to that, probably just retrospectively change the laws to make it leagal.
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Re: 'paso a paso" rules for traveling between comunas... and related stuff

Post by admin » Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:05 am

Well, it is a particularly common thing in chilean culture not to look before they leap. Somedays I wonder if the politicians in chile, have ever been to chile.

The u.s. is probably going degenerate in to a smoldering pile lawsuits for decades to come from this pandemic. I suspect a lot of countries are going down that road.
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Re: 'paso a paso" rules for traveling between comunas... and related stuff

Post by tiagoabner » Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:46 pm

Who the hell is giving the government legal counsel, if they're screwing up this badly?
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Re: 'paso a paso" rules for traveling between comunas... and related stuff

Post by ghibli » Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:36 pm

Kind of damned if you do - damned if you don't. The first health minister, as I understand it, was fired because he failed to understand and impose an effective quarantine. The compliance rate was stated to be about 30% in Santiago as an average for the whole city. Obviously, the poorer comunas and those who used the always crowded public transportation were hit hardest. So now they try to impose effective quarantines, which can apparently only be accomplished by the use of fines - especially apparently for people with second homes - and they run into a legal quagmire. So the infection rate is going down and the anger quotient is spiking. It's easy to criticize but I for one have difficulty envisioning a solution which wouldn't piss off at least some of the peeps.

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Re: 'paso a paso" rules for traveling between comunas... and related stuff

Post by tiagoabner » Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:01 pm

ghibli wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:36 pm
Kind of damned if you do - damned if you don't. The first health minister, as I understand it, was fired because he failed to understand and impose an effective quarantine. The compliance rate was stated to be about 30% in Santiago as an average for the whole city. Obviously, the poorer comunas and those who used the always crowded public transportation were hit hardest. So now they try to impose effective quarantines, which can apparently only be accomplished by the use of fines - especially apparently for people with second homes - and they run into a legal quagmire. So the infection rate is going down and the anger quotient is spiking. It's easy to criticize but I for one have difficulty envisioning a solution which wouldn't piss off at least some of the peeps.
Yep. I don't envy those responsible for calling the shots right now. Regardless of what they do, there will be someone angry with them.
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