Electric Vehicles News

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Britkid
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Electric Vehicles News

Post by Britkid » Sat Aug 22, 2020 11:21 pm

We had a couple of threads in 2018-2019, maybe time for an update.

Buses
100 electric buses into operation in Santiago in the last week or so, more coming in September. Electric buses in greater Santiago are now at about 700 (unclear if that number includes any hybrids) making about 10% of the total. There is a higher % than pretty much anywhere in the world, except China.

Cars
Many of the new models you hear about in Europe and the US haven’t made it here. Most of the sales in Chile are still Nissan Leafs and Hyundai Ioniqs. However the MG ZS EV is now the first 100% electric SUV on sale in Chile.

Electric car sales reached a record monthly total of 51 in September (2019), then slowed. About 900 electric cars have been sold so far (800 of those from 2017-2020).

Incentives
Still no significant subsidies and incentives for electric vehicles, and the permiso de circulacion of all cars is still based on the up-front purchase price, which actually penalizes electric cars.

Charging Points Updated 23rd September 2020
There are now fast (usually 50kW) charging points from La Serena to Temuco and slow from there to Puerto Montt and Chiloe and there are more than charging points in the country. You basically have four routes starting from Santiago: a) Vina del Mar/Valpo, b) La Serena, c) Santo Domingo/San Antonio, and d) the south. Chargers on the motorways are mainly Copec, with some Shell. Map: tinyurl dot com slash y7c5toa4

Copec is charging 250 pesos/kWH - or 230 pesos/kWH is for a minimum spend of 5000 per month.

I had to download the Copec Voltex app. The phone had to have Chile set as its location before it would work. Then it rejected one of my foreign cards and my Banco de Chile debit card and finally accepted when I added the Banco de Chile credit card. I am not sure if that means foreign cards and debit cards might be difficult in general or whether that´s just what happened this time. EDIT: Got a reply from Copec on facebook: "Por el momento es necesario contar con tarjeta de crédito chilena. Estamos trabajando para habilitar el pago con tarjeta de débito."

Anyway, I´m glad I thought to sort out the app in advance because it made me fill in various details and it was a hassle. You wouldn´t want to be doing all that while standing at the charging points. With the app sorted out in advance, charging was quite easy and took about 2 minutes to get going just by following simple options on screen and in the app. I tried it at 2 locations yesterday just to try it out and charge for 5 minutes and they were fine.

I also bought a phone charger to leave in the car and charge from the car because I honestly don´t know what you would do if your phone was out of battery when you got to the charge point.

Currently, Copec has most of the chargers in non urban areas between Temuco and La Serena, so, for the time being, you pretty much have to use them to drive up and down Ruta 5 if you have an electric car.

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Re: Electric Vehicles News

Post by admin » Sun Aug 23, 2020 12:04 pm

All those programs were pre-social crisis. Pre-pandemic.

Back in the good old days, where the government could get away with spending on lavish first world pet projects, while pretending there was no poverty or other issues to be solved.

The days of pissing millions of dollars in public funds on what is essentially toys for rich people, is over.

No one is going to be able to make that fly.

If electric vehicles advance now in chile, it will be privately funded.

There might be some token support with various laws, but it is no longer a priority.

personally, I don't even think it is a priority from an environmental stand point. Chile has far more important environmental problems to solve.
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41southchile
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Re: Electric Vehicles News

Post by 41southchile » Sun Aug 23, 2020 1:44 pm

They maybe becoming more ethical and cheaper too, they are developing a battery without cobalt and nickel
https://thenextweb.com/shift/2020/08/17 ... cal-cheap/
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41southchile
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Re: Electric Vehicles News

Post by 41southchile » Sun Aug 23, 2020 1:51 pm

admin wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 12:04 pm
All those programs were pre-social crisis. Pre-pandemic.

Back in the good old days, where the government could get away with spending on lavish first world pet projects, while pretending there was no poverty or other issues to be solved.

The days of pissing millions of dollars in public funds on what is essentially toys for rich people, is over.

No one is going to be able to make that fly.

If electric vehicles advance now in chile, it will be privately funded.

There might be some token support with various laws, but it is no longer a priority.

personally, I don't even think it is a priority from an environmental stand point. Chile has far more important environmental problems to solve.
I wouldn't be too sure on that, millions will be pissed up against the wall still, but that's the inevitable outcome of spending billions on state stimulus spending, spending which is going on "infrastructure". That includes building more sustainable and resilient infrastructure , clean electricity generation is one area, so EV promotion could be a logical extension of that?. (32USd billion is the headline figure, on stimulus spending)
“Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.”

proger
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Re: Electric Vehicles News

Post by proger » Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:25 am

what good will it be to have an electric car in chile where electricity is expensive almost as fuel?

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fraggle092
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Re: Electric Vehicles News

Post by fraggle092 » Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:10 am

Huh. Steadfastly ignoring the trend of events in the country thats losing its way.
Here's the future Chilean version of sustainable, eco-friendly transport.
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41southchile
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Re: Electric Vehicles News

Post by 41southchile » Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:34 am

proger wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:25 am
what good will it be to have an electric car in chile where electricity is expensive almost as fuel?
Searching for price comparisons online (and from my experience) Chile is actually about middle of the pack when it comes to Electricity prices in the world, slightly more than USA average but cheaper compared to countries like Ireland, Germany and New Zealand. The same goes with Gasoline prices too, so not really sure how you get to that conclusion. By that logic the economics of EVs wouldn't work in dozens of other countries either, and yet they do and countries with more expensive electricity and gas are rolling them out.
EVs require electricity to charge the battery and are not running continuously on it, unlike gasoline, so the comparison is flawed.
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41southchile
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Re: Electric Vehicles News

Post by 41southchile » Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:36 am

Personally I think green Hydrogen is actually the better way to go for Chile.
https://www.h2chile.cl/post/government- ... n-hydrogen
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Britkid
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Re: Electric Vehicles News

Post by Britkid » Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:52 am

Price of electricity is not an important factor in EV adoption because electricity cost is a small fraction of the total cost of ownership.

We have actually sold our petrol SUV and bought an EV now, it is a Hyundai Ioniq (the electric only, not the hybrid version). I am getting 5.4 Miles/KWH out of it so far, that is a real figure since I have actually measured the number of miles and KWH since I bought the car.

Even at an expensive 140 pesos/KWH, which is what we currently pay, that still works out at only 26 pesos/mile.

With the Honda CR-V we were paying 136 pesos/mile for petrol. Again, that is a real value I measured after keeping all the gas receipts for an entire year.

So my per mile fuel cost is just under 20% where it was. Granted, the Ioniq is a particularly efficient car, and we've changed to smaller car also...a more typical figure would be that EVs do 30% of the per mile fuel cost of a petrol/diesel car.

Of course, that is for home charging. If you use public chargers in Chile it will be even cheaper at the moment since many of them are free. However, the free public charging is just to help kick things off. It probably won't last and Copec is planning to charge 230 pesos/KWH soon although they haven't got the system up and running yet at my local charge point, it was still for free the last time I tried it last month. However even in the worst case scenario (no home charging, no cheaper or free chargers near you) if you ended up paying the Copec rate you would still be looking at half or less the petrol per mile price.

If anyone is seriously interested in getting an electric car (whether now or just one day) please feel free to ask me any questions on here or by PM. I'd be happy to help and tell you about my experiences.

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tiagoabner
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Re: Electric Vehicles News

Post by tiagoabner » Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:45 pm

Britkid wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:52 am
If anyone is seriously interested in getting an electric car (whether now or just one day) please feel free to ask me any questions on here or by PM. I'd be happy to help and tell you about my experiences.
Can you please share more about your home charging situation and the costs associated with your set up?
I'm NOT your lawyer, accountant or financial planner. All information at this post should be considered for your entertainment only. Consult a professional before making a decision regarding whatever topic was mentioned in this post.

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Re: Electric Vehicles News

Post by admin » Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:15 pm

yea, it is not just the car, or the charge.

It is the whole supply chain. From upfront costs to repairs. They all need to fill out, a lot.

great, wonderful, if you are sticking within a couple of hundred km of Santiago; perhaps most major cities, plus or minus 200 km to ruta 5.

99% of that supply chain has nothing to do with Chile, as chile produces nothing once the copper and lithium leaves the ground. The whole supply chain needs work.

And I am definitely not interested in dropping $50,000 or 100,000 U.S. plus, on beta testing technology. Pretty sure most of the population is not there, yet.

I suspect we will have for a very long time two very separate transportation systems. one for the rich. one for the poor.

I will not drive an American car in to the Patagonia for limited parts and service options (and you that to have parts to drive an American car anywhere); sure as hell not doing it with an electric car any time soon.

when I buy a car in chile (any car), I take a long hard look at how common they are in the country and how robust the supply chains is for parts and service. especially if I am planning to keep it a long time.

hopefully the pandemic has a few managers rethinking their supply chain.
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Britkid
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Re: Electric Vehicles News

Post by Britkid » Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:57 pm

tiagoabner wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:45 pm

Can you please share more about your home charging situation and the costs associated with your set up?
I decided to just trickle/granny/slow charge only so I have spent nothing on that. I just plug the cable that came with the car into the socket that was already there on the outside of the house. I had an electrician over to check this out and he suggested just to upgrade the socket just to be on the safe side, so I am supposed to be spending 20 luca on that upgrade but he never came by to do it as promised and then we went into COVID.

It does mean I can only charge the car at 1.5kW which means a full charge from 0% to 100% of the 28kWH battery takes me 15-20 hours.

Most EV owners in US/Europe install a dedicated charger so that they can charge at 7kW and get a full charge in a short time but I think people are over cautious. How often do you really do 100 miles+ in a day, come back late, and then need to do 100 miles+ again the next day leaving in the morning? That is the only time our slow charging will be a problem. I'd say for us this will be perhaps once a year that we'll need to go to a fast public charging station for that reason.

However for a dedicated 7kW charger you are usually looking at a cost in the hundreds of euros/dollars I think.

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