Plebiscite

General topics related to Living in Chile
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fraggle092
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Re: Plebiscite

Post by fraggle092 » Sat Feb 29, 2020 10:34 am

41southchile wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 8:00 am
Most Venezuelans dont have a clue what they are talking about most of the time, quite similar to Chileans in that sense, but they like to think they do. So I'd take what they say with a grain of salt.
Venezuelans know all about Asambleas Constituyentes at first hand....try reading that article.
¿Qué busca entonces la izquierda no democrática con una Asamblea Constituyente? Como señala Pablo Torres: “nuestra lucha por echar a Piñera con la huelga general y por imponer una Asamblea Constituyente libre y soberana, debe ser liquidando los poderes de las viejas instituciones del régimen heredero de la dictadura como la presidencia y el parlamento actual.
There never has been any mystery about the PCCH's intentions. Their declared goal is the elimination of the present form of government, and they have fought from within Congress towards that goal ever since Bachelet's electoral reforms finally allowed them political influence, which they have skillfully exploited to the limit.

It's no coincidence that Guillermo Teillier called for Piñera to step down just one day after the October Metro riots.
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41southchile
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Re: Plebiscite

Post by 41southchile » Sat Feb 29, 2020 12:18 pm

fraggle092 wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 10:34 am
41southchile wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 8:00 am
Most Venezuelans dont have a clue what they are talking about most of the time, quite similar to Chileans in that sense, but they like to think they do. So I'd take what they say with a grain of salt.
Venezuelans know all about Asambleas Constituyentes at first hand....try reading that article.
¿Qué busca entonces la izquierda no democrática con una Asamblea Constituyente? Como señala Pablo Torres: “nuestra lucha por echar a Piñera con la huelga general y por imponer una Asamblea Constituyente libre y soberana, debe ser liquidando los poderes de las viejas instituciones del régimen heredero de la dictadura como la presidencia y el parlamento actual.
There never has been any mystery about the PCCH's intentions. Their declared goal is the elimination of the present form of government, and they have fought from within Congress towards that goal ever since Bachelet's electoral reforms finally allowed them political influence, which they have skillfully exploited to the limit.

It's no coincidence that Guillermo Teillier called for Piñera to step down just one day after the October Metro riots.
Chile is not Venezuela, never has been never will be, despite what people like to claim. Yeah they have first experience in Asambleas constituyentes, doesnt mean they know the Chile situation. I'll read it later, I'm just over every outside "expert" giving their point of view of how things are and will go in Chile, (from both sides).

I dont know, I dont give too much credit to communists and whatever they like to band together and call themselves in this country, they are a a bit of a sad joke imo, capable of sewing seeds but that's about it, no follow through, but that's just me.

Of course people like Teillier are going to ask for Piñera to resign, that's what they do, it's part of the dirty game they play and like to make political capital in times of calamities, most politicians/commentators do it everywhere .
“Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.”

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fraggle092
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Re: Plebiscite

Post by fraggle092 » Sat Feb 29, 2020 2:29 pm

41southchile wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 12:18 pm
Chile is not Venezuela, never has been never will be, despite what people like to claim.
I actually worked in Venezuela in the days before Chávez. Even then, there was a strong underlying sense of resentment against "inequality", much similar to the attitudes being expressed here. There isn't that much difference, especially since corruption and drug traffic have arrived here as well.
41southchile wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 12:18 pm
Of course people like Teillier are going to ask for Piñera to resign, that's what they do, it's part of the dirty game they play and like to make political capital in times of calamities, most politicians/commentators do it everywhere .
I cannot recall a similar call for a Chilean president to resign in 30-odd years of "democracy".
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alextrombone
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Re: Plebiscite

Post by alextrombone » Sat Feb 29, 2020 6:04 pm

As soon as the military were put on the streets, Piñera should have resigned.

mem
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Re: Plebiscite

Post by mem » Sat Feb 29, 2020 6:26 pm

alextrombone wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 6:04 pm
As soon as the military were put on the streets, Piñera should have resigned.
Glad he didnt resign and play into the hands of power vacuum chaos that is exactly what the communist left wanted.

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41southchile
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Re: Plebiscite

Post by 41southchile » Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:14 am

fraggle092 wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 2:29 pm
41southchile wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 12:18 pm
Chile is not Venezuela, never has been never will be, despite what people like to claim.
I actually worked in Venezuela in the days before Chávez. Even then, there was a strong underlying sense of resentment against "inequality", much similar to the attitudes being expressed here. There isn't that much difference, especially since corruption and drug traffic have arrived here as well.
41southchile wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 12:18 pm
Of course people like Teillier are going to ask for Piñera to resign, that's what they do, it's part of the dirty game they play and like to make political capital in times of calamities, most politicians/commentators do it everywhere .
I cannot recall a similar call for a Chilean president to resign in 30-odd years of "democracy".
There is a strong underlying resentment against "inequality" in many places, not just Chile and Venezuela.

There are just as many differences between Venezuela and Chile as there are similarities , and while a degree of corruption exists in Chile , I cant recall any president here in Chile being impeached for embezzling public funds .
I'm still not buying into the argument that it happened in Venezuela so it will happen in Chile.

There is (or was) 40 million people in Venezuela, that's a lot of masses to manipulate and use, how many would there be in Chile? Theres a lot of people in Chile that would not jump in behind a Maduro/chavez figure like they did in Venezuela. Theres a lot of right wingers in Chile. It also has a military that would not easily succumb to some Maduro type bribery

There is a lot more cocaine in Venezuela, just owing to its geographical location and the narco state status, yes there is some in Chile and it has been used as a transit point, but nothing like it is in the north of the continent.

There was a lot of oil, which is easy and cheap to make political capital and populist programs with, what would they do in Chile, give everyone a sheet of copper?

Anyway, I don't know, just an opinion. No one has a friggin clue, just because there are some supposed things in common doesn't mean something is inevitable, I see more reasons Chile wont go the way of Venezuela.
“Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.”

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fraggle092
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Re: Plebiscite

Post by fraggle092 » Sun Mar 01, 2020 11:11 am

41southchile wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:14 am
Anyway, I don't know, just an opinion. No one has a friggin clue, just because there are some supposed things in common doesn't mean something is inevitable, I see more reasons Chile wont go the way of Venezuela.
What reasons exactly? There's nothing unique about this country. It was only stable in the past due to fairly honest, centralized control that has steadily been weakened over the past 20 years thanks to corruption and political irresponsibility. I've watched it happen. Chilezuela is nearly here already, even without the Asamblea Constituyente.
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Informe ONU alerta sobre el tráfico de cocaína desde Chile - La Tercera.png
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https://www.latercera.com/mundo/noticia ... LVDKU5GFQ/
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41southchile
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Re: Plebiscite

Post by 41southchile » Sun Mar 01, 2020 11:53 am

fraggle092 wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 11:11 am
41southchile wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:14 am
Anyway, I don't know, just an opinion. No one has a friggin clue, just because there are some supposed things in common doesn't mean something is inevitable, I see more reasons Chile wont go the way of Venezuela.
What reasons exactly? There's nothing unique about this country. It was only stable in the past due to fairly honest, centralized control that has steadily been weakened over the past 20 years thanks to corruption and political irresponsibility. I've watched it happen. Chilezuela is nearly here already, even without the Asamblea Constituyente.
.
Informe ONU alerta sobre el tráfico de cocaína desde Chile - La Tercera.png
.
https://www.latercera.com/mundo/noticia ... LVDKU5GFQ/
I have mentioned a couple of weeks ago about corruption and political ineptness (or irresponsibility )but more ineptness, and the pervasiveness of incapacity to think logically or about the greater good amongst the public sector, from politicians to the bottom rung of the burrocracy . I am not debating that and have no doubt about that, but what I am doubting is the efficiency or coordination from many on the left, without imploding and infighting,. What I am doubting is that the "commies/revolutionaries" from the rest of the continent are able to extent their tentacles down into Chile , they are just not that sophisticated. They tried it once in their hey day in Chile and looked what happened fo them after a little less than 2 years in govt. The military wont be co opted into that bullshit.
Yes a lot has changed in 20 years in Chile, apart from govt . Chileans are much more travelled, they have much more money in their pockets, they are a lot more cynical, now if they want to piss that up against the wall and go back to some type of broken ass populist style of running the country then good luck to them I guess , I personally cant see it happening.

Truth be known I dont have many reasons or proof, just my feelings from conversations and limited knowledge,
we all see things through different lenses, but that's like anything in life , cant change shit, if its gonna happen its gonna happen .
“Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.”

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41southchile
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Re: Plebiscite

Post by 41southchile » Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:15 pm

Here's another one saying all constitutions have to have legitimacy .
Ex leader of CPC (Confederación de la Producción y del Comercio)

https://www.emol.com/noticias/Economia/ ... yente.html
“Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.”

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Re: Plebiscite

Post by admin » Mon Mar 02, 2020 6:49 pm

41southchile wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:15 pm
Here's another one saying all constitutions have to have legitimacy .
Ex leader of CPC (Confederación de la Producción y del Comercio)

https://www.emol.com/noticias/Economia/ ... yente.html
that guy is fucking moron.

You know how most constitutions get "legitimized"?

a bunch of people with bunch of guns point them at a bunch of other people, and ask them if they would like to endorse the constitution. The ones that refuse to "endorse" the constitution, well, they don't get a vote (ever again, about aything).
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fraggle092
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Re: Plebiscite

Post by fraggle092 » Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:37 pm

Coming out with this pro-apruebo stance just as he's about to end his current job. :)
Just another opportunist positioning himself for a future government post. Assuming there is one... :lol:
Or perhaps, as another politico says, its all just populist hot air:
"Me imagino que si gana el 'Apruebo' y hay que escribir una Constitución desde cero, estarás dispuesto a dejarlo todo para ser candidato a la convención constituyente y escribir esa 'nueva Constitución' a la que hoy aspiras, ¿o esa 'pega' la tendrán que hacer otros?", le preguntó Cubillos.
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Cubillos emplaza a Swett.jpg
Fuente: Emol.com - https://www.emol.com/noticias/Nacional/ ... ucion.html
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chilly
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Re: Plebiscite

Post by chilly » Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:24 am

I think that the water rights argument would be a strong issue, especially in rural areas.

But, wouldn't it be easier if more water is needed to just "tax" water rights owners by "taxing" away 20% of "water" property acquired (payable in water)? I don't see why a constitutional change is needed for the government to take a portion of the water. People pay property taxes on homes that they 100% own.

If a normal legislative solution is found, then a radical constitutional change may not be needed.

Or, I'm clueless.

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