The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by admin » Tue Feb 18, 2020 6:58 pm

fraggle092 wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 12:34 pm
Browsing El Antro. "Antro" in Chile means a low-life place, a Dive, and that pretty well sums up the site, its not pc and foul language abounds. However its not ideologized, all points of view are represented, and from a post on this thread, I found this, which is a pretty fair summary of the reasons for voting Rechazo, much better than anything in the mainstream press:

(The thread is huge, over 6000 pages long, highest number is latest)
Algunas cosas que destacar:
1. La Constitución sirve para LIMITAR EL PODER DE LOS GOBERNANTES


2. Nuestra Constitución establece tres garantías, que TODO CHILENO debe defender:
a. Principio de legalidad (Art 6 y 7): Ninguna autoridad puede hacer nada que NO esté expresamente contemplado en la ley

b. Derechos fundamentes (Art 19): Vida, libertad de expresión, libertad de culto, propiedad, derecho a emprender, educación, salud, trabajo, seguridad social son derechos individuales garantizados y protegidos

c. Contrapesos: Se crean organismos fiscalizadores de la autoridad, para que ninguna se exceda de sus competencias, se regula al Presidente, el Congreso, Poder Judicial, Tribunal Constitucional, Contraloría, Ministerio Público, Banco Central ... nadie tiene el poder absoluto


3. De aprobarse la nueva Constitución:
a. Los constituyentes serán elegidos conforme las reglas de elección de diputados: tendremos constituyentes del 1%, y como no todos somos iguales ante la ley, si tú o yo queremos ser electos necesitaremos juntar 3.000 firmas ante notario y tener al menos 100 millones de pesos para la campaña, mientras que los militantes de partidos políticos, esos que dices detestar, no tendrán que juntar firmas y podrán usar algo de los 7 mil millones de pesos, de todos los chilenos, que dispone el Papi Estado para estos fines gracias a la Soa Bachi

b. De aprobarse la CONVENCIÓN MIXTA los miembros parlamentarios de la constituyente NO PERDERÁN su dieta, pero tampoco estarán obligados a seguir asistiendo a sesiones en el Congreso. Por lo que las personas perderán representación en el Congreso por tener parlamentarios trabajando en la constituyente.

c. El perfil de los constituyentes será similar al de la Cámara de Diputados: 95% - 100% militantes de partidos políticos, muchos electos con el 1% y varios sin mayores credenciales académicas. Referente a esto último, la de 1980 fue redactada en más de 5 años por cerca de 15 abogados que solo debían consultar a algunos militares, lo que se propone ahora es que cerca de 150 weónes, que no saben nada de derecho, se pongan de acuerdo en un tiempo menor que ese, qué podría salir ? :huy: pues es muy probable que seamos testigos de muchos quiebres en la negociación y que sea muy peluo que lleguemos a acuerdos .....

d. La discusión será sobre una hoja en blanco, cuyas reglas probablementes serán más claras DESPUÉS del plebiscito :awesomeyeah: . Es decir, no sabemos que quedará, que se cambiará, que cosa nueva propondrán, ni sus mecanismos ... ningún ADULTO SERIO firmaría un cheque en blanco !

e. La única garantía que tenemos es el PLEBISCITO DE SALIDA, pero la probable extensión POR AÑOS de este proceso - 150 personas se deben poner de acuerdo - garantiza que la gente al final estará EXTENUADA de años de estancamiento económico, político y laboral, por lo que que terminaremos aprobando cualquier cosa ... como una Constitución que NO LIMITE a nuestros gobernantes, dándole el PODER ABSOLUTO a los políticos que dices tanto destestar

f. Si efectivamente partimos con una hoja en blanco y está el quórum del 2/3, basta que 1/3 se oponga para que no se escriba nada. Va a estar pelúo a que llegemos a acuerdos y quizá terminemos con una Constitución de 5 hojas. Ante esto, ya existe antecedentes respecto a temas controvertidos por Zurdistán que se contienen en la actual Constitución, por lo que probablemente apuntarán a:
fi. ELIMINAR en cláusula del DERECHO DE PROPIEDAD la obligación del Estado de pagar el TOTAL del valor de cualquier bien expropiado, esto permitirá expropiar el gran tesoro: fondos de pensiones sin pagar, onda para financiar estacionamientos municipales según el Epidemia de Jadue
fii. ELIMINAR el TRIBUNAL CONSTITUCIONAL y así poner fin al control preventivo de constitucionalidad. En la práctica significa que el Congreso o la Presidencia podrán aprobar leyes contrarias a la Constitución sin que nadie los controle
fiii. Algunos grupos radicales podrán pedir ELIMINAR la AUTONOMÍA del BANCO CENTRAL para poder emitir billetes con el fin de financiar políticas sociales sin presupuesto: inflación extrema
fiv. Entrará en el debate los DERECHOS FUNDAMENTALES: libertad de culto, derecho a la vida del que está por nacer, libertad de empresa podrían ser controvertidos
they missed an important one: 30+ years of a socialist governments and control of congress. They don't like the results. Now they think the solution is more socialism.
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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by admin » Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:46 am

You stupid fucking little boys and girls.

Did you really think the far right in chile was going to let you go on burning and looting forever?

Did you not read just even a little bit of history about how this shit ends, everywhere, every single time?

https://www.biobiochile.cl/especial/lo- ... rmas.shtml

https://www.biobiochile.cl/noticias/nac ... ncha.shtml

How do you think this game ends for Children playing "the revolution game"?

Too bad the education system in chile sucks so bad. They might have learned this in a book, before learning it the hard way.

and fucking politicians on left are shoving these kids in front of a the firing squad.
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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by admin » Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:59 am

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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by 41southchile » Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:31 am

Tried to burn down the gobernacion building and attacked firefighters in Puerto Montt trying to fight the fire, for some reason there was no police precence when firefighters arrived, there is a police station literally like 500 meters away. Plus other assorted incidents in the capital , which included a guy carrying an UZI
https://www.emol.com/noticias/Nacional/ ... meses.html
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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by admin » Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:09 am

here is the critical mistake the left is making: they alienated the carbinareios with their campaign of demonization of the police and the "murdering police" bullshit.

in spite of the attempt by the kids today to repaint the history of the dictatorship, it was the carbinareios that were the thin line between the protesters and the military dictatorship. It is one of the reasons the carbinareios were the poor cousins, because the military did not trust them and their families. The famous stories are of the sectors of Santiago where large numbers of carbinareios traditionally lived, the entire neighborhood would erupt in to pot banging from their windows to protest the dictatorship.

The kids are rapidly loosing that buffer.
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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by admin » Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:34 am

so after all this bullshit, Congress still can not bring themselves to reduce their pay to a reasonable international level let alone a reasonable pay for Chile.

https://www.emol.com/noticias/Nacional/ ... paros.html
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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by ghibli » Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:35 am

to admin: I think you are absolutely right about the carabineros. It was a very very stupid mistake to scapegoat them. And attack them. And burn them with molotov cocktails. I also think it is very very stupid to be whinging about "crimes against humanity" allegedly committed by carabineros while at the same time letting the vandals, looters, assaulters slide. These kids haven't seen/imagined crimes against humanity. That would be white phosphorus. Bombing entire cities to rubble etc etc etc. I have no doubt that a few carabineros may have lost their cool and roughed up some of the attackers, but hey --- stop throwing stones assholes.

I read a very interesting article by Luis Hidalgo Parra which details the recent history of education in chile. Sorry I don't have the link. He concludes what you do - that the education system has miserably failed the youth of chile - and possibly the greatest tragedy is that the poorer kids who cannot attend the "better" expensive schools attended by the middle class las condes set have developed as a psychological defense system - a contempt for education and learning itself. Many of these poor kids couldn't think their way out of a paper bag.

On the other hand I do want to say that while driving around in Santiago where many semaforos are still not functioning, I have met a fair few young people directing traffic. They are invariably FAIR about it which is very encouraging. I hope there are many of them.

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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by ghibli » Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:37 am

PS - Congress cannot/will not vote to reduce their pay because they are all out in their maseratis on vacaciones....

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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by tiagoabner » Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:18 pm

ghibli wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:35 am
(...) stop throwing stones assholes.
This is the part that still baffles me: the protestors claiming to be surprised to get shot by non-lethal/less-lethal amno when attacking the cops. Dude, you pull that shit out anywhere else in the world and you're so f*&$ed. Throwing a molotov cocktail at an armored vehicle in Brazil or the US is akin to suicide by cop. And here in Chile they do that and complain about their human rights when the cops react with tear gas. :lol:
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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by fraggle092 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:49 pm

tiagoabner wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:18 pm

This is the part that still baffles me: the protestors claiming to be surprised to get shot by non-lethal/less-lethal amno when attacking the cops. Dude, you pull that shit out anywhere else in the world and you're so f*&$ed. Throwing a molotov cocktail at an armored vehicle in Brazil or the US is akin to suicide by cop. And here in Chile they do that and complain about their human rights when the cops react with tear gas. :lol:
Even worse is the cowardly way government or rather Piñera, has backed down, and how the opposition has used the violence to further its own selfish aims to acquire power, something that they couldn't do honestly at the Ballot Box. Both sides have completely betrayed their constitutional responsibilities to maintain a civilized, orderly society, and have cost the country dearly, both financially and in terms of Chile's international reputation.
That's it, the rest of the "Social Demands" are all horseshit.
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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by fraggle092 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:21 pm

Make of this cod-religious work of art what you will. Suspect that its intended to be satirical, but who knows. Very well done nevertheless.
.
Mano Poderosa.jpg
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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by admin » Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:54 pm

tiagoabner wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:18 pm
ghibli wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:35 am
(...) stop throwing stones assholes.
This is the part that still baffles me: the protestors claiming to be surprised to get shot by non-lethal/less-lethal amno when attacking the cops. Dude, you pull that shit out anywhere else in the world and you're so f*&$ed. Throwing a molotov cocktail at an armored vehicle in Brazil or the US is akin to suicide by cop. And here in Chile they do that and complain about their human rights when the cops react with tear gas. :lol:
Just for simplicity, let us make a list of all countries where if someone throws a Molotov cocktail at the police they would NOT be shot.

I'll start.

1. Chile
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