The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

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fraggle092
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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by fraggle092 » Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:36 pm

41southchile wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:16 am
[ the attitudes and culture are rotten throughout the public service and right through the political class.
Not just them....in the past, the country was only kept reasonably honest by strict and centralized control. Now anything goes. That's called Fascist Talk these days, unfortunately. But Chile evolved that way for a reason.
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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by admin » Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:19 am

they expelled a 45 year old Venezuelan for throwing rocks in plaza itialia at the police. seems he was arrested more than once too.

https://www.emol.com/noticias/Nacional/ ... mbros.html

yea, these are just a bunch of kids having fun. :lol:
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tiagoabner
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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by tiagoabner » Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:34 am

admin wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:19 am
they expelled a 45 year old Venezuelan for throwing rocks in plaza itialia at the police. seems he was arrested more than once too.

https://www.emol.com/noticias/Nacional/ ... mbros.html

yea, these are just a bunch of kids having fun. :lol:
I read about this one yesterday, although at that time they still hasn't released more information about him. It seems that this guy is the one that dumped rocks and scrap fill at Plaza Italia about a month back.
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Kavo
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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by Kavo » Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:49 am

41southchile wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:16 am
admin wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:32 pm
well, who needs corruption, when you have massive government waist and inefficiency.

the country is just pissing billions of dollars in to the wind everywhere you look; much of it just window dressing.

everything from millions of dollars spent importing Haitians and syrians, to buying police dodge interceptors (in a country where high speed chases are almost never done), to bell helicopters flying up and down the lake beaches for no good reason (what are they going drop a rescue diver in 2 meters of water), etc, etc.

perhaps chile does need some good old corruption to get things properly bureaucratically lubricated and moving.
Maybe the Haitians and Syrians were brought in because the likes of agro industry needed cheap employees, maybe the dodge interceptors were imported because the person who procured them went to school with the guy who has the distribution networks, maybe the bell helicopters were part of a cousins business.
From the shittiest little municipal right through to institutions such as the likes of MOP, through to senior ministers and even the president, the country has always bought unnecessary shit from friends and family for public use and hired unnecessary staff because they are family or friends.
Dont call that corruption then, call it what you like, but its definitely a lot more more than simple and innocent waste and inefficiency, the attitudes and culture are rotten throughout the public service and right through the political class.
You’re probably right. I couldn’t believe the amount of cronyism/nepotism in this country in the private sector, so I imagine its much worse in the public sector

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fraggle092
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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by fraggle092 » Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:03 pm

The John Cobin saga continues.

According to this blog post, he is still locked up, charged with 4 attempted homicides. Apparently, to obtain provisional liberty he would have to obtain a psychiatrist's certificate, backed up by two psychologists reports, attesting that he isn't dangerous. He has been refused bail repeatedly on the grounds of being a menace to society.

Total shrink certification would cost CLP $10M, which apparently he hasn't got. Even if he did obtain this certificate, there's no guarantee that the judge would even look at it.

He was a damn fool for doing what he did, and to me it looks like the authorities want to make an example of him to discourage vigilante behaviour. Although he's a Chilean citizen, in local eyes he's still a gringo, and a high-profile libertarian one at that.
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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by admin » Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:16 pm

fraggle092 wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:03 pm
The John Cobin saga continues.

According to this blog post, he is still locked up, charged with 4 attempted homicides. Apparently, to obtain provisional liberty he would have to obtain a psychiatrist's certificate, backed up by two psychologists reports, attesting that he isn't dangerous. He has been refused bail repeatedly on the grounds of being a menace to society.

Total shrink certification would cost CLP $10M, which apparently he hasn't got. Even if he did obtain this certificate, there's no guarantee that the judge would even look at it.

He was a damn fool for doing what he did, and to me it looks like the authorities want to make an example of him to discourage vigilante behaviour. Although he's a Chilean citizen, in local eyes he's still a gringo, and a high-profile libertarian one at that.
hey, regardless if is john cobin, or little wankers in plaza itialia, being a political martyr comes with consequences.

no idea what all that babble is about a psychiatrist to get out of jail; but, does not work that way.

sounds like another scam to try and get money.
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fraggle092
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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by fraggle092 » Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:32 pm

admin wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:16 pm

no idea what all that babble is about a psychiatrist to get out of jail; but, does not work that way.
sounds like another scam to try and get money.
That "babble" comes straight from Hermógenes Pérez de Arce, Lawyer, -ex diputado, senatorial candidate, (losing out to Piñera and Eduardo Frei). He was Cobin's lawyer at one stage I believe as well as a personal friend. Don't believe he's a scammer, somehow. Or a babbler. :)
He's very rightwing, and widely known in Chile. Not so much on this forum though. His many enemies would love to pin that sort of accusation on him.

Since he is only relaying the message, it could be that Cobin is going stir-crazy, and is willing to try anything to get out, who knows.....
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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by admin » Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:51 am

got to giggle at this.

pinera's approval rating has gone up, and he is on vacation.

https://www.emol.com/noticias/Nacional/ ... lavin.html
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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by admin » Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:57 am

fraggle092 wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:32 pm
admin wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:16 pm

no idea what all that babble is about a psychiatrist to get out of jail; but, does not work that way.
sounds like another scam to try and get money.
That "babble" comes straight from Hermógenes Pérez de Arce, Lawyer, -ex diputado, senatorial candidate, (losing out to Piñera and Eduardo Frei). He was Cobin's lawyer at one stage I believe as well as a personal friend. Don't believe he's a scammer, somehow. Or a babbler. :)
He's very rightwing, and widely known in Chile. Not so much on this forum though. His many enemies would love to pin that sort of accusation on him.

Since he is only relaying the message, it could be that Cobin is going stir-crazy, and is willing to try anything to get out, who knows.....
He is obviously not charging him enophe.

My quick readying is they tossed some new charges on the pile, to keep him in jail while they prepare the trial. They will probably keep on doing it.

hazards of making yourself a high profile case. The best he can hope for is to keep his mouth shut, and hope everyone looses interest in the case.

In fact, getting out of jail, even for a little bit, would probably just draw a whole lot of attention to the case.
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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by admin » Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:51 am

here is this thing. if you watched that first detention hearing, did you notice how many prosecutors showed up?

I counted at least 5 to 8, plus junior attorneys. That is not normal. Hell, prosecutors are so overloaded everywhere, there are cases dismissed in Chile all the time because the prosecutor never showed up to court; let alone most of the regional office.

He has the political plague. The government is going full throttle on this, and the prosecutors have massive political pressure on them to deliver. Too many eyeballs on the case. I am sure the judge is feeling it too. There is no cutting deals, or any of that crap that is going to happen here. The government is on a mission to prove they are not a bunch of right wing nut jobs.

He has one strategy left: run

and everyone involved knows this. he has dual citizenship, etc.

well, that makes him an obvious flight risk, besides by his own admission to being a danger to the community on video.

even if he got out, and ran, that would not work. due to the high-profile nature of the case, they would red notice him with Interpol and having been detained on a felony, he already has a ni exit order at the PDI (standard procedure for any felony arrest).

so, sooner or later they would extradite him back.

Now, normally, believe it or not, that often helps a defense case.

My father, after being a prosecutor most of his career, went in to criminal defense his last 10 years. every so often he would get a case where the client was essentially had no defense. the prosecutors were in no mood to cut a deal, the judge had basically made up their mind, the client had done something so stupid like confess immediately, with hundreds of witnesses, video, etc. essentially, this sort of case.

so my father would tell them, and he had to be careful about the frazing even, to run. but not for ever. in 6 months, a year, two years, then turn themselves in. I think he only ran in to one or two of those in his whole career.

why?

because in 6 months, the most important case on the prosecutors' desk, is now at the bottom of the stack under possibly hundreds of other new "more important" cases. most prosecutors are just trying to keep their heads above water with the tsunami of daily case flows. so, the prosecutor is more willing to cut a deal, judges are more willing to take the prosecutors deal at face value (they got a case load too), to get this old nuisance case off their desk.

In Chile, I seen a stat that most cases, a prosecutor has as little as 11 mins to handle each case per month. only the highest profile, and most shocking cases, actually make it to trial. The number of those that actually get the resources and attention are even smaller.

Thus, by making this a high-profile case, drawing both national and international attention, not even that will get him any slack.

FYI, courts in chile have been getting creative recently and handing out the equivalent of life sentences; and they have been upheld on appeal. The judges have been stacking up consecutive sentences of say 15 to 20 years for each charge, to to get something like a functional life sentence of 100+ years. Those were also very high profile cases, with national outrage. The addition of more felony charges, is probably a clue to what the state is going after in this case.

He wanted to be an example, now the state is going to make him one.
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41southchile
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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by 41southchile » Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:45 am

So supposedly they are already for March when the violence will return, supposedly THIS time they are prepared but are calling for calm, you know just in case.

EVERYONE is on holiday at the moment , from bankers to public service workers, the whole friggin country pretty much shuts down in February (and a good part of September too) for anything important and leaves juniors in charge with no instructions, who have no authority or can not make any decisions .
You know you are on a half ass country when that goes for the vandals and thief's too, guess they got to have some time out from such a grueling schedule and have some downtime .

https://www.emol.com/noticias/Nacional/ ... marzo.html
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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by fraggle092 » Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:03 am

admin wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:51 am

He has one strategy left: run
and everyone involved knows this. he has dual citizenship, etc.
Yes. And probably only to the US, by virtue of being a US citizen.
If his Chilean citizenship were revoked, or renounced, they could probably declare him an undesirable and deport him.
That would be a face-saving option for the government.
But he has a family here as well.
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