The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by admin » Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:53 am

It is coming down the pipe. the fucking left always takes it too far. the institute of human rights, is going to pay the price for the bullshit stories they were pushing throughout the protests. now it seems, it coming out that members inside were helping and coordinating with the protesters; which pretty frigen obvious to anyone that was paying attention.

https://www.emol.com/noticias/Nacional/ ... -INDH.html

after all these months the "thousands" of human rights violation they were claiming, we are down to just handful of real substantiated cases of human rights abuses by the state.
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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by admin » Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:14 am

so now, after all this time, someone from the INDH speaks out and calls the violent protests illegitimate and the left's oppression of speech and violence fascists.

https://www.emol.com/noticias/Nacional/ ... timas.html

I have one question for them.

where the hell were you back in October?
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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by admin » Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:30 am

so in trying to figure out the origins of this "social crisis" I have a lot of pet theories.

one of my theories I have applied to a lot of the strange things in chilean society is that the dictatorship sort of held back or delayed chile's social development. Things that happened in other places long ago, are just now catching-up to Chilean society.

well here is an interesting article on family structures in the U.s., but it also seems to fit a lot of what is going on in chile.

https://amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/605536/

and there was a chart of countries and families structures. chile did not have any data, which is strange omission considering the trend is for richer countries to have more fragil family units as they get richer.

https://www.pewforum.org/2019/12/12/rel ... lds-00-02/

but the most important point is in the relationship between family structure and poverty.
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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by admin » Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:44 am

20200212_094329.jpg
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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by admin » Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:54 am

ok, I think you can read that screen shot if you open it up.

it was just really great analogy to an airplane for what this constitutional process is like in a letter to the editor of our local paper (135 years old this week, and now the oldest paper in chile).

in short, he says it is like we a get to the airport, and find out our flight was canceled due to bad weather. another airline offers to take all the other passengers on their flight, if they promise not to use the other airline again.

a few passengers try to speak up, to ask some questions about the flight. like where is it going? how long is it going to take? all the other passengers shout them down as traders, ungrateful, etc.

not even the pilots knows where we are going, or if it will be possible to get back to the airport in an emergency, or what the alternative flight plan is, etc.

You know that analogy is not that new. Do you know what it sounds like?

Plato's allegory of the cave.

None of this is new; just the ignorant in Chile are insisting on reinventing the wheel. That way they can say "it is their wheel".
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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:13 am

This interview with a politico Core of San Antonio (this dude signed off on my temporary residency years ago as provincial governor) actually succinctly makes the points we have been making over and over again on the forum. Granted he is a politico of the right who has had his own personal issues like most of the scum polticos of Chile (assauting a Carabinero and investigated for financial stuff) but refreshing to see that many do "get it".

https://www.soychile.cl/San-Antonio/Pol ... taria.aspx
Core UDI: “La izquierda democrática de San Antonio está atemorizada por la ultraizquierda minoritaria”
Rodrigo Ogalde
09.02.2020

Mauricio Araneda habló de los fundamentos que tiene su partido para optar por el rechazo en el plebiscito de abril.

Mauricio Araneda Atenas, el consejero regional por San Antonio, tiene claro que el rol de la Unión Demócrata Independiente (UDI), su partido, va a ser relavante para que la gente se sume a la opción de rechazo en el plebiscito de abril que busca determinar si los chilenos quieren o no una nueva Constitución.

En entrevista con El Líder Dominical, Araneda contó que los líderes de los partidos ligados a Chile Vamos en la provincia de San Antonio han iniciado una ronda de reuniones con el fin de crear una red en la que, según él, también participan dirigentes sociales de la zona.

“Esperamos tener operativa esa red a principios de marzo, para disponer de un mes y medio intenso en que podamos entregar la información de lo que significa esto”, afirmó.

El core insistió en que “iniciar un proceso constituyente significa saber qué es la Constitución”. A su juicio, la gran mayoría de las personas no ha leído la Carta Fundamental.

Añadió que en torno al rechazo se han aglutinado actores políticos de diversas corrientes en San Antonio. Al respecto señaló que “vamos a tener, a contar de marzo, una estructura que va a estar sustentada en dirigentes más que en partidos, donde no solo hay personas que son de centro derecha sino que también personas de centroizquierda que se han sumado a la opción de que nosotros creemos que es necesario hacer reformas sociales profundas y, probablemente, también reformas a la Constitución, pero no necesariamente hacer una carta blanca y partir de cero”.

Araneda resaltó que es una “caricatura” decir que la actual es la Constitución de Augusto Pinochet, ya que, a su parecer, dicha Carta Magna ha sido sometida a diversas modificaciones bajo los gobiernos democráticos, incluso en el mandato de Ricardo Lagos Escobar.

De igual manera, resaltó que una nueva Constitución “no asegura el mejoramiento de la salud” ni tampoco ayudaría a que aumenten las pensiones o que en Chile haya mayor acceso a la educación.

“Hoy hay que partir con hacer un mea culpa y este tiene que ser muy claro:_la Nueva Mayoría, la Concertación y Chile Vamos, todos, tenemos responsabilidad en haber administrado un modelo en que no fuimos capaces de poner las prioridades de la gente en donde correspondía”, sostuvo Mauricio Araneda al hacer un análisis de lo que ha pasado en Chile en los últimos 30 años. Sin embargo, enfatizó en que “no podemos entregarles el país a pequeños grupos ultraizquierdistas que quieren cambiar a un modelo absoluto y que no son democráticos y que si alguien no piensa como ellos, lo amenazan”.

En este nuevo escenario post 18 de octubre, admitió, los políticos descubrieron que “sí se podían hacer cosas” para mejorar la calidad de vida de la ciudadanía. Y todo eso, recalcó, se puede concretar sin redactar una nueva Carta Fundamental, solo “con voluntad y humildad”.

PLEBISCITO

Agregó que “no sé si estén dadas las condiciones para llevar adelante un proceso eleccionario en abril porque quienes están por el apruebo no han tenido la fuerza necesaria para parar los hechos de delincuencia”. En esa línea, dijo que “la Izquierda democrática de San Antonio está muy entregada o atemorizada por esa ultraizquierda que es minoritaria, que no ha logrado ganar nunca en las urnas y que, en definitiva, nos tiene llenos de hechos de violencia”.

De la misma manera, el dirigente de la UDI_aseguró que el triunfo del Apruebo va a implicar “un proceso constituyente que puede ser de un costo tan alto para Chile”, pues “son dos años de incertidumbre en que Chile, probablemente, va a elevar sus tasas de desempleo, va a bajar las tasas de inversión y crecimiento, porque no existe ninguna política que pueda ser financiada si no hay una economía que funcione”.

“Hoy día yo estoy por el rechazo positivo”, aseveró junto con señalar que eso implica que sin hacer una nueva Constitución se pueden efectuar los cambios que la gente quiere.
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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by fraggle092 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:05 pm

I think that the Regime Change supporters have overplayed their hand. This level of violence, with promises of more to come is intolerable. So far, infrastructure services have not been touched, but that could change.
Not content with torching the Santiago Metro, they just set a train on fire in Antofagasta.
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Antofagasta1.jpg
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Also from Antofagasta, a store that has been looted seventeen times now. Makes you wonder why Unimarc keep it open.
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Antofagasta2.jpg
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https://www.biobiochile.cl/especial/lo- ... -18o.shtml
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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:18 pm

Actually, there have been a lot of recent localized Internet, electric and water cuts in the central region making one wonder if it is more than accident and incompetence.

BTW, that Anto train was moving tanks of acid. I easily identified them when I saw the video as they are the same color and type that moves sulfuric acid from San Antonio to CODELCO.
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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by fraggle092 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:41 pm

eeuunikkeiexpat wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:18 pm
Actually, there have been a lot of recent localized Internet, electric and water cuts in the central region making one wonder if it is more than accident and incompetence.

BTW, that Anto train was moving tanks of acid. I easily identified them when I saw the video as they are the same color and type that moves sulfuric acid from San Antonio to CODELCO.
I'm sure that a lot of outages are collateral damage from the other shit they are doing.
Acid? Those f's that attacked the train probably didn't know that, else they might have tried to derail it.
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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by El Presidente » Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:53 pm

eeuunikkeiexpat wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:18 pm
BTW, that Anto train was moving tanks of acid. I easily identified them when I saw the video as they are the same color and type that moves sulfuric acid from San Antonio to CODELCO.
What could possibly go wrong?

I have this image of one of the anarchists getting burned by the acid and becoming some kind of grotesque two-face/joker type and being spearheaded to leader of the "movement".
two face.jpg
two face.jpg (15.8 KiB) Viewed 263 times
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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by 41southchile » Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:17 pm

So I was talking to a friend the other day, he will vote to change, I asked why there should be a vote for change, hes same age as me, in his early 40s, his reply basically was as follows as best I can remember,

So this thing can be debated properly , people can become informed and have all the information, for the future of Chile, whatever it takes! people need to wake the hell up, stop their bitching, stop their moaning and realise what the fuck is going on in their country, and what has been going on in this country for the last three decades, more actually.
We could be one of the most successful in the world, with the natural resources we have , but our human resources are screwed , the mentality is screwed , from the citizens all the way up through the public service through to the politicians on all levels.

We the generation of 40 and 50 somethings have given up power for the last 30 years to corrupt politicians and elites, doing nothing but something for themselves and their friends.
We have let it get to this, by pretending everything is ok buying into the propaganda or keeping our heads down, now we have a chance to debate and for the first time about where we want our country to head, to show the elites we are serious that they cant buy off anyone and everything for their own benefit while so many in the country suffer and dont advance.

The citizens that do come through with good ideas and vision for the country , the ones that come in to the political system are crushed by the corruption, the nepotism and incompetence that oozes from every layer of government here.
Untill all of that changes and untill people wake up and realize how the country operates and how much of a friggin embarrassment it is , nothing changes.
Until the majority realise how much of a sick joke it is for so many nothing changes, So yeah, fuck it , I vote change because not changing will mean accepting the same old same shit, at least this way we can debate it and have a real discussion and debate for the next few years if that's what it takes.

A vote for no change , fixes nothing and only divides the country further, if you are happy with your lot and in a comfortable position and dont really care about the well being of the whole country then obviously you wont want to change and you will invent scary stories about what the extreme left will do.

He dismissed the commies and extreme lefties as has beens and said they dont have much overall support and a lot of it is scaremongering from the right.

These are my friends point of view and just thought I would throw that out there in the debate,

I asked him about the destruction and looting, he said there is a price to pay for everything, the chickens are coming home to roost (or words to that effect)

So yeah, I like to hear all sides and like being challenged on my opinions, I'm still not sure if I'll vote , I first came here 25 years ago and still dont fully understand the country or the culture or the history, I thought I did, but clearly I'm still learning , after October everything changed and everything is up for discussion and debate, like I said I dont have 20 or 30 years to wait for a better country , if that's even possible. See what happens I guess.
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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by admin » Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:24 pm

corruption, corruption, corruption bla, bla, bla.....

The only ones in chile with a greater imagination about the "corruption in chile" than the gringos, are the native born Chileans themselves.

Being an ignorant lazy fuck that can not figure out how to fix their own fucking problems is not the same as corruption.

corruption is driving down a highway, and being pulled over every 100 km for a bribe (and not a toll road).

corruption is buying votes openly on the street.

corruption is being able to buy a government contract with a small donation to a politician.

I have spent more time dodging corruption in Argentina and peru, in the handful of trips I have ever made there, than in all my years in Chile.

fucking chileans are the biggest bunch of winning little bitches, that the vast majority don't even fucking know the definition of "corruption" let alone how their own fucking country works.

they think something does not go just their way, well obviously it is corruption.

You would think, in the buisness we are in, the "corruption" would be in our face all day, every day, year after year.

In all the years we have been doing what we do, we might of at least run across a real instance certifiable case of corruption. At least a case of some official suggesting we pay them something.

You know what I got for stories regarding corruption in chile nothing. we fix the most unfixable problems every frigen day, completly legally. all day, every day. year after year.

here is the sort of deep "corruption" we engage in. at Christmas time, we have a list of people's contacts that were particularly helpful throughout the year, most are just secretaries that helped us navigate a particular sticky bit of beucracy, and because we were, drum roll please, ....nice to them, under their own volition, they decided to help us. so, We send them a box of chocolates and a thank you note for their help. again, at Christmas time!!!

A higher level official, most which have been friends for years (knowing who to call, is not the same as corruption, that is people skills and networking) we send them a bottle of wine. Nice, but rarely does it top $20 in value, and never do we do it in such a way it would be associated with any particular act. just a thank you for them helping us out. Most the time we are just calling someone with more experience than us in a particular area, and asking for advice how to handle something. we are not even asking them to do anything.

guess what?

because we remembered them, and recognized that they helped us, recognized their value as both people and professionals, they are always willing to help us out next time. Most people don't even acknowledge they exist.

you want to get things done in this country, here is our secret:
DON'T BE AN ASSHOLE!!!!

It is not that hard.
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