The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

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eeuunikkeiexpat
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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Sat Feb 01, 2020 11:47 am

The futbol gangs. A colo colo fan was hit by a Carabinero vehicle in Santiasco a couple of days ago.

This shows how very organized they are and how they have this violence stuff down to a science.

So the narcos control the barras bravas and the narcos are allegedly in alliance with politicos of differing levels on the left and probably some on the right.
Que será, será.

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fraggle092
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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by fraggle092 » Sat Feb 01, 2020 2:12 pm

ghibli wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 11:41 am
to fraggie092: I don't actually recall anyone on this site defending the violence.

I do. Maybe they confused it with the "peaceful protest" narrative that has lost all credibility now. And perhaps they swallowed the ridiculously-biased Human Rights accusations as well.

Does there seem to be an upswing in violence? .
If you read the local news you would already know the answer. Its Yes. With more to come in March.
Twenty police stations were attacked on 29/01, see graph.


This doesn't seem like politics. Can't blame it on commies or ultra-rightists. This is just people being savage.

Yes. But It's the harnessing of the savages to destabilize the country for a definite reason with the opportunistic collusion of the parliamentary opposition in an astounding display of disloyalty to the Constitution they swore to uphold. Piñera has grossly failed his constitutional duty to maintain law and order as well.
Don't normally post Twitter links, but here's one moderate rechazo site that posts regular updates, especially to the rural destruction not even reported in the mainstream media any more.
This graph is from La Tercera:
.
Nac-violencia2.jpg
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fraggle092
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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by fraggle092 » Sat Feb 01, 2020 2:47 pm

eeuunikkeiexpat wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 11:47 am
The futbol gangs. A colo colo fan was hit by a Carabinero vehicle in Santiasco a couple of days ago.

This shows how very organized they are and how they have this violence stuff down to a science.

So the narcos control the barras bravas and the narcos are allegedly in alliance with politicos of differing levels on the left and probably some on the right.
The Narco-Socialist mayor of San Ramón has strong links to "Senior Stateman" Senator José Miguel Insulza, -ex Secretary General to the OAS. Another Socialist, obviously. Whole friggin' country is rotten, top to bottom.

The international media are completely unaware of the seamy underside to virtually every activity here involving money and power, so their potted resumes are always simplifications of complicated, usually not-very-nice truths.

https://www.t13.cl/noticia/politica/sem ... mece-al-PS
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mem
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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by mem » Sat Feb 01, 2020 2:55 pm

fraggle092 wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 2:12 pm
ghibli wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 11:41 am
to fraggie092: I don't actually recall anyone on this site defending the violence.

I do. Maybe they confused it with the "peaceful protest" narrative that has lost all credibility now. And perhaps they swallowed the ridiculously-biased Human Rights accusations as well.

Does there seem to be an upswing in violence? .
If you read the local news you would already know the answer. Its Yes. With more to come in March.
Twenty police stations were attacked on 29/01, see graph.


This doesn't seem like politics. Can't blame it on commies or ultra-rightists. This is just people being savage.

Yes. But It's the harnessing of the savages to destabilize the country for a definite reason with the opportunistic collusion of the parliamentary opposition in an astounding display of disloyalty to the Constitution they swore to uphold. Piñera has grossly failed his constitutional duty to maintain law and order as well.
Don't normally post Twitter links, but here's one moderate rechazo site that posts regular updates, especially to the rural destruction not even reported in the mainstream media any more.
This graph is from La Tercera:
.
Nac-violencia2.jpg
Araucania is supposed to be the poorest region, but doesn't register on the above infographic

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fraggle092
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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by fraggle092 » Sat Feb 01, 2020 3:23 pm

mem wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 2:55 pm

Araucania is supposed to be the poorest region, but doesn't register on the above infographic
More people, more incidents, yes?

So less people, less incidents. And the more rural, the less they get reported by the mainstream media, of which the Tercera is a typical example.

The Araucanía generally is a political hot potato that both the government and the media are doggedly hoping will just go away.
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ghibli
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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by ghibli » Sat Feb 01, 2020 3:35 pm

to fraggie092 Thank you for all the information. You clearly are following all this very closely. I do think that people have the right to peacefully assemble and protest, but most of what we've seen hasn't been that. I do very much agree that the international press hasn't got a clue and/or isn't printing what they know. I also very much agree that there must be a very ugly seamy underside to this. 52 Metro stations are
not destroyed in just a few hours by teenagers in school uniforms. I wonder about international connexions. I wonder about Bolivia. The new
mining secretary is actually a long time employee of one of the big chile miners. Is there a connexion? I don't know. Is Pinera a genuine wimp or does all this play into his hands? As far as I can see, in my admittedly limited view, is that the entire overpaid parliament or congress or what ever they call their far niente club has failed to maintain law and order. And my neighbors are still talking to me about emmigrating because their work places have been burned down. We don't actually disagree. It's only that I am less well informed.

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fraggle092
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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by fraggle092 » Sat Feb 01, 2020 4:42 pm

ghibli wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 3:35 pm
And my neighbors are still talking to me about emmigrating because their work places have been burned down. .
I don't want to ram my pov down other peoples' throats, but imho the Plebiscite outcome will affect everyone in this country for years to come, its that important.

Although Chileans are usually reluctant to give an honest answer about anything to strangers, none of the locals I talk to have indicated anything but dismay for the current state of affairs. All over-35s, admittedly. Most people here have no problems, at least in theory, with reducing inequality etc, but it has to be done within an orderly framework, not by giving in to threats of violence. But the present system is so diseased that I don't see any quick solution. Looking for easy answers is a latino vice, one that encourages Caudillismo.
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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by admin » Sat Feb 01, 2020 5:48 pm

fraggle092 wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 2:12 pm
ghibli wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 11:41 am
to fraggie092: I don't actually recall anyone on this site defending the violence.

I do. Maybe they confused it with the "peaceful protest" narrative that has lost all credibility now. And perhaps they swallowed the ridiculously-biased Human Rights accusations as well.

Does there seem to be an upswing in violence? .
If you read the local news you would already know the answer. Its Yes. With more to come in March.
Twenty police stations were attacked on 29/01, see graph.


This doesn't seem like politics. Can't blame it on commies or ultra-rightists. This is just people being savage.

Yes. But It's the harnessing of the savages to destabilize the country for a definite reason with the opportunistic collusion of the parliamentary opposition in an astounding display of disloyalty to the Constitution they swore to uphold. Piñera has grossly failed his constitutional duty to maintain law and order as well.
Don't normally post Twitter links, but here's one moderate rechazo site that posts regular updates, especially to the rural destruction not even reported in the mainstream media any more.
This graph is from La Tercera:
.
Nac-violencia2.jpg
bio bio, registered 2?

yea, sorry that is not passing the smell test.
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fraggle092
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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by fraggle092 » Sat Feb 01, 2020 8:02 pm

admin wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 5:48 pm


bio bio, registered 2?

yea, sorry that is not passing the smell test.
Not with you...this is what I linked to. Please explain.
.
APRA ARAUCANíA ( aprachile) Twitter.jpg
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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by admin » Sun Feb 02, 2020 6:05 am

my point was that concepcion, and to some extent los angels and chillian, are notorious hot beds of protest. mostly due to the mix of mapuche, university students, and high poverty levels. It would be rather odd that they sat that one out. perhaps they all went on vacation.
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mem
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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by mem » Sun Feb 02, 2020 12:17 pm

Looks like John Cobin's case is not going well. A few days ago I read an article saying that his defense team is still trying to claim self-defense. The prosecutor is saying that is DOA because there is video that shows him out of the way of harm and he was still firing. Can't find the article now or I would link to it (was a chilean paper)

Also the prosecutor appears to have added a second charge of "Frustrated homicide" for a second male. So two different male targets and a Frustrated Homicide charge for each. Of course they also denied his defense teams request for bail last week. Maybe sometime in Feb he may get out on bail after the 90day detention is up.

At least that law passed that specifically outlaws the "He/She who dances passes" thing. From the jump that seemed like it was illegal anyway under false imprisonment, but now it is very clear.

I imagine between his case, the protests, rapidly weakening peso that many foreigners are rethinking a move to Chile or in the case of some long time residents they are choosing to leave after 10+ years. It doesn't phase me though, if are you tough enough to make it through this rough patch without bailing there may be some benefits to be reaped in the years to come

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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by Jamers41 » Sun Feb 02, 2020 6:30 pm

I'm not panicking.......at least not yet. Many people are saying March will be bad and blah blah.......but from what I see, protests have not stopped (and violence has still been on and off, never really completely disappeared either). I have a hard time believing that we will see 1.2 million on the street in Santiago like we had on October 25th, it was history making for a reason (also that particular day was not especially violent either). These days it's kind of just a matter of knowing what places to avoid and at what times. The falling peso, however, does have me worried, it has me checking prices of things wondering if the next time I see that product it will be more expensive. Accelerating inflation is not something we want to add to this mix.

As far as the Constitution thing goes, I will likely vote "rechazo," but I'm not as worried about it as some here seem to be. If the people vote yes, I still don't think that Chile will promptly spiral into Venezuela, the political right here is not that stupid, they made sure that anything put into a new constitution has to have 2/3rds approval for a reason. If a new constitution actually manages to be cooked up with enough votes from different groups, and those groups are seen as legitimate by a majority of the populace, long term this would be beneficial.

On a brighter note, I did read today that yesterday there were 12 people put into "prisión preventiva" under the rules of the new "antisaqueos" law. It's a start.

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