Real life experience Fonasa B with the private system

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eeuunikkeiexpat
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Re: Real life experience Fonasa B with the private system

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:21 pm

Características PAD:
El PAD Inestabilidad de Rodilla incluye:

El tratamiento quirúrgico artroscópico para reparar las estructuras dañadas dirigido a reconstruir los ligamentos lesionados

Y como característica general de los PAD:

Los honorarios de todo el equipo profesional que técnicamente se requiera, bajo la responsabilidad administrativa y legal del prestador en convenio.
Los valores de los días camas y el derecho de pabellón, incluidas las diferencias de tarifas por estos conceptos.
Los medicamentos e insumos utilizados durante la Hospitalización.
Todas las prestaciones necesarias, para resolver integralmente la patología correspondiente al PAD.
También considera la atención integral hasta 15 días después del egreso del paciente, incluyendo los controles post operatorios; la reparación de lesiones involuntarias y el tratamiento de las complicaciones más frecuentes derivadas de la resolución de la patología del PAD. En caso de complicaciones, se entienden incluidos el diagnóstico, el tratamiento y la hospitalización que se requiera.

No cabe cobro de diferencias por ningún concepto al beneficiario, ni por días camas, derecho de pabellón, arsenalera, medicamentos o insumos.

Para las intervenciones quirúrgicas, en las cuales por razones técnicas es necesario efectuar estudios histopatológicos, se entenderá que dichas prestaciones están incluidas en el valor del PAD.
There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true;

the other is to refuse to believe what is true.

- Søren Kierkegaard

thisisreallycomplicated
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Re: Real life experience Fonasa B with the private system

Post by thisisreallycomplicated » Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:14 pm

Have you looked into surgery alternatives? You obviously know a lot more about your situation than I do, but I'm wondering if very careful exercise and better nutrition would work.

This is something I was reading a couple weeks ago, about how ligaments heal:
http://www.peraspenberg.com/texts/how-d ... ents-heal/
What happens when you sprain your ankle? Does the ligament rupture, or is it stretched? How long does it take before it heals? Does it fully recover?

One might think that the answers to these questions are common knowledge for doctors and physiotherapists, but they are not. The questions seem simple enough, but in reality we cannot give a definite answer to any of them, but here we will try anyway.
Nobody completely understands the healing process. So are you better off supporting your natural healing processes with careful exercise, and better nutrition? Or maybe surgery really is the best option in your case.

And here's some other related stuff:

https://regenexx.com/blog/alternatives- ... scus-tear/
Alternatives to Arthroscopic Knee Surgery for a Meniscus Tear

To understand why the science now supports that our whole surgical approach to treating meniscus tears is ill-advised, let’s follow a 45- year-old patient who develops knee pain when hiking or running. The patient moves suddenly to avoid a rock, hears a pop in his knee, and his knee begins to swell. All of a sudden, an otherwise active middle-aged guy can’t hike or run without pain. At first the patient tries to ignore it, but after a week of no improvement, he visits the family doctor. An MRI shows some swelling and a meniscus tear and our guy is referred to an orthopedic surgeon.

Let’s stop our story right here for a moment. While the patient and his physicians are convinced they have found the source of his knee pain, the hardcore research of the last few years tells a different story. In fact, it’s highly likely that, had we performed the MRI months before the knee was injured, we would’ve seen the same tear! Additionally, if we performed an MRI on our patient’s 10 best buddies, all of whom have no knee pain, about half would show a meniscus tear that looked just like our patient’s. So regrettably, the meniscus tear is a “red herring”, not a diagnosis.

https://www.caringmedical.com/prolother ... treatment/
Recently researchers in the United Kingdom put together a paper on best practices of when and type of ACL surgery to consider.

Here is a summary: The aim of ACL surgery is to restore functional stability to the ACL deficient knee. ACL reconstruction can be performed using a variety of different surgical techniques as well as different graft materials.

The choice of whether to operate or not relies on many factors and is highly dependent on patient’s degree of symptoms and requirements in terms of activity level and participation in pivoting sports.
Many patients can become symptom-free following a course of physical therapy and rehabilitation.

https://www.webmd.com/pain-management/k ... -surgery#1
Torn ACL May Heal Without Surgery

Anyway, I'm not trying to convince you that surgery is a bad idea. It really may be your best option. I'm just trying to point out a possible alternative, that may not work in your case.
“Now it’s conspiracy – they’ve made that something that should not even be entertained for a minute, that powerful people might get together and have a plan. Doesn’t happen, you’re a kook, you’re a conspiracy buff!” – George Carlin

thisisreallycomplicated
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Re: Real life experience Fonasa B with the private system

Post by thisisreallycomplicated » Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:41 pm

One more thing you might want to look into is Adequan or Ichon. It works really well for dogs and horses, but may not be approved for humans.
http://forums.rxmuscle.com/archive/inde ... 58098.html

I couldn't find it in Chile about 5 or 6 years ago, so I had to import it from the US for my dog. I'm not recommending that you use it, but researching it might give you some ideas.
“Now it’s conspiracy – they’ve made that something that should not even be entertained for a minute, that powerful people might get together and have a plan. Doesn’t happen, you’re a kook, you’re a conspiracy buff!” – George Carlin

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eeuunikkeiexpat
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Re: Real life experience Fonasa B with the private system

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:32 pm

Thanks tirc.

Prolotherapy, hmmmm. I might not sign or pay for anything and think things over Fiestas Patrias. Looks like proloterapia is in Chile. Perhaps physical therapy and prolotherapy and if that doesn't work, then an operation.
There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true;

the other is to refuse to believe what is true.

- Søren Kierkegaard

at46
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Re: Real life experience Fonasa B with the private system

Post by at46 » Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:35 pm

thisisreallycomplicated wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:41 pm
One more thing you might want to look into is Adequan or Ichon. It works really well for dogs and horses, but may not be approved for humans.
http://forums.rxmuscle.com/archive/inde ... 58098.html

I couldn't find it in Chile about 5 or 6 years ago, so I had to import it from the US for my dog. I'm not recommending that you use it, but researching it might give you some ideas.
Looks like these are the equivalents for human use: http://www.cruzverde.cl/buscador-de-med ... lucosamina

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eeuunikkeiexpat
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Re: Real life experience Fonasa B with the private system

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:51 pm

Regular glucosamine is not like that vet stuff which sounds potent and perhaps impossible to get a hold of not to mention the injectable part.

In fact, I have a couple months supply of oral glucosamine, chondroitin, collagen and a whole host of other supps that I stopped taking to not mess up my testing for the operation but saving for post operation recovery.
There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true;

the other is to refuse to believe what is true.

- Søren Kierkegaard

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eeuunikkeiexpat
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Re: Real life experience Fonasa B with the private system

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:29 pm

PRP and stem cell therapy also in Chile. Won't have any Fonasa coverage though, maybe for prolotherapy office visits. One place is offering $300.000 for alternative treatments.
There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true;

the other is to refuse to believe what is true.

- Søren Kierkegaard

at46
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Re: Real life experience Fonasa B with the private system

Post by at46 » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:06 pm

eeuunikkeiexpat wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:36 pm
Absolutely amazing prices.

Under PAD:
Unstable knee operation - $1.454.000
https://www.fonasa.cl/sites/fonasa/bene ... aciones/40

with complementary meniscus removal - $134.420
https://www.fonasa.cl/sites/fonasa/bene ... aciones/28

Total: $1.588.420

This is an operation that would easily cost at least US$20,000 in the USSA

So off to the Fonasa office this coming week to pay.
So are you paying 50% of that with Fonasa B? Which would be pretty cool. Thanks for sharing.

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Re: Real life experience Fonasa B with the private system

Post by thisisreallycomplicated » Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:44 pm

eeuunikkeiexpat wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:32 pm
Prolotherapy, hmmmm. I might not sign or pay for anything and think things over Fiestas Patrias. Looks like proloterapia is in Chile. Perhaps physical therapy and prolotherapy and if that doesn't work, then an operation.
That sounds like a good plan
“Now it’s conspiracy – they’ve made that something that should not even be entertained for a minute, that powerful people might get together and have a plan. Doesn’t happen, you’re a kook, you’re a conspiracy buff!” – George Carlin

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eeuunikkeiexpat
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Re: Real life experience Fonasa B with the private system

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:51 am

at46 wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:06 pm
eeuunikkeiexpat wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:36 pm
Absolutely amazing prices.

Under PAD:
Unstable knee operation - $1.454.000
https://www.fonasa.cl/sites/fonasa/bene ... aciones/40

with complementary meniscus removal - $134.420
https://www.fonasa.cl/sites/fonasa/bene ... aciones/28

Total: $1.588.420

This is an operation that would easily cost at least US$20,000 in the USSA

So off to the Fonasa office this coming week to pay.
So are you paying 50% of that with Fonasa B? Which would be pretty cool. Thanks for sharing.
Yes, indeed. All my family in the USSA are astounded. On top given they live in now third-world Cal, makes you wonder who the developed country is. :wink: Also, don't forget that if one did want to do the public system, there is virtually no payment.
There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true;

the other is to refuse to believe what is true.

- Søren Kierkegaard

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eeuunikkeiexpat
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Re: Real life experience Fonasa B with the private system

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:03 am

thisisreallycomplicated wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:44 pm
eeuunikkeiexpat wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:32 pm
Prolotherapy, hmmmm. I might not sign or pay for anything and think things over Fiestas Patrias. Looks like proloterapia is in Chile. Perhaps physical therapy and prolotherapy and if that doesn't work, then an operation.
That sounds like a good plan
I have found two places in Chile doing stem cell, PRP and prolotherapy. One is in Las Condes, the other is in Vitacura. One is working on incorporating Fonasa, the other one already is setup to take it (to what extent, I do not know yet). One is actually a Start-Up Chile creation :!: :!: :!: and is now a known name internationally in patient donated and created stem cell therapy and cancer specific therapy research.

In consultation mode right now. My plan is to live without the ACL and focus on saving the inner meniscus. If my inner meniscus is indeed not recoverable, I might go ahead with the full operation but have injections related to the above to aid in healing and who knows, a miraculous recovery of new cartilage and tendon material. :alien:
There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true;

the other is to refuse to believe what is true.

- Søren Kierkegaard

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eeuunikkeiexpat
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Re: Real life experience Fonasa B with the private system

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:02 pm

Tomorrow I travel to Santiasco for my second opinion at a clinic who is affiliated with SanaSalud and who does stem/PRP/prolotherapy. They take Fonasa B.

If the new therapies cannot rescue my inner meniscus, I will go ahead with the full operation but do the new tech knee shots to promote healing and more.

No one noticed my comment, but the other clinic is a Start-Up Chile operation that is actually at the cutting edge of self-donor stem cell cultivation and therapy.

I will post names as I see things go...
There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true;

the other is to refuse to believe what is true.

- Søren Kierkegaard

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