electric vehicles in chile

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Britkid
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Re: electric vehicles in chile

Post by Britkid » Sun Dec 23, 2018 12:43 pm

Interesting about bitcoin energy consumption.....had no idea...

About "the tragedy of the commons" I think that may accurately describe climate change and why we fail to tackle it. That's why I think we need taxes and subsidies in order to make the environmental choices cheaper and therefore in the interests of the individual. Although government messing with the market is unappealing to some of our instincts, it seems to be the least bad choice.

mem
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Re: electric vehicles in chile

Post by mem » Sun Dec 23, 2018 1:09 pm

bert.douglas wrote:
Sun Dec 23, 2018 1:36 am
Bitcoin is an experiment that is still under development.

The hash-rate is way down recently. This means that a lot less energy is being wasted. Many of those chinese bitcoin miners have gone broke and are no longer operating.

Also the transaction fees are back down to negligible amounts. Technical improvements have reduced the both the size and number of transactions.

My opinion is that bitcoin has some fundamental design flaws, that limit transaction volume and waste energy. However, it is good code. Well tested and reliable. Changes are very carefully and slowly introduced after much testing. A huge number of good programmers are working on it. All the development is done in the open.

Most of the other cryptocurrencies are pretty bad in comparison. Only a few programmers. Working in secret. Few resources for testing. If they aren't outright scams, they are full of bugs.
I agree mostly, and while I have interest in alt coins like Monero for being the apex privacy coin. You can't argue with BTC market cap and daily volume. By far the most liquid coin currently though most all of the top 10 market cap coins have strong and consistent daily volume

With regards to transaction capacity/scaling volume, I have no doubt that Bitcoin SV will scale beyond Visa volumes IF it not only survives but supplants BTC and BCH in market cap and volume.
At the same time I think we can see BTC pass for scalable enough for the near term. BCH can scale better than BTC but not BSV near term.

Its is my contention that one of these will emerge as the mid to long term market cap and volume apex predator. BTC, BCH, BSV, and LTC. All actually descended from a proto btc code base. All just have evolutionary tweaks to do one thing better or worse than another thing.

BSV is the dark unfavored horse, but I wouldn't count it out yet.

To others that have the "wasted energy" complaints about crypto, I think it is misplaced. Shouldn't we first complain about all the electricity that worldwide entertainment consumes? Its gargantuan amount of petawatt hours. All for entertainment of humans. Think about that for a second. All the different forms of entertainment the world consumes and the sheer quantity of electricity that it demands every single day. If you are not quick to want to vilify entertainment for its monumental waste of electricity and carbon footprint let's take a subset of entertainment...pr0n. At worst we should lambaste the electricity usage of pr0n worldwide and its carbon footprint. Long before we strain to take the sliver that is crypto mining away. Arguably I would assert that the proof of work mining necessary to enforce a worldwide cryptographically limited digital currency that is permissionless, decentralized, transparent, and unalterable as being one the most noble uses of electricity, because it enables free commerce and markets no matter what the local currency of choice is.

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Re: electric vehicles in chile

Post by HybridAmbassador » Sun Dec 23, 2018 3:04 pm

Battery is the key to EV propagation. Tesla not into EV business but to sell battery.

Tesla’s Gigafactory will soon be the largest covered building ever built and, with the permission of the Chinese company BYD, the largest battery factory in the world in what has become the fight to control of one of the most important technologies for the future. Tesla’s joint venture with Panasonic will make it one of the most relevant players in the field, a household name with greater capacity for expansion in an increasingly dynamic and contested market that goes far beyond the automotive industry, configuring one of the key industries in the transition to a world fueled by clean energy.

While European industry will increasingly depend on the Chinese to develop its battery capacity, and a range of countries court Elon Musk to build another Gigafactory in their territory, there is clear evidence of the suitability of lithium-ion technology as a solution to the problems posed by the supply of electricity from renewable sources, while the alleged problems posed by the doomsayers regarding the scarcity of this material are being solved through new developments to improve recycling: the clear difference that makes electric batteries superior to fossil fuels is that we do not have to burn — and eventually breathe — any of its chemical components.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/enriquedan ... 69dd7c4061
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Re: electric vehicles in chile

Post by HybridAmbassador » Sun Dec 23, 2018 3:05 pm

Tesla Is A Battery Business, Not A Car Business...

The last few weeks have seen Tesla become the most valuable U.S. automaker by market cap. It exceeded both Ford and General Motors GM -3.76%, two powerhouses of the industry for over a century. Many think that this is just another sign of irrational exuberance in the stock market. Mike Jackson, the CEO of AutoNation AN -1.9% Inc., America’s largest car dealer, concluded last week that Tesla is “either one of the great Ponzi schemes of all time” or will eventually succeed for investors.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ellenrwald ... 0cbf966ba9
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fraggle092
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Re: electric vehicles in chile

Post by fraggle092 » Sun Dec 23, 2018 5:08 pm

mem wrote:
Sun Dec 23, 2018 1:09 pm
Shouldn't we first complain about all the electricity that worldwide entertainment consumes? Its gargantuan amount of petawatt hours.
And what would be the point of that?
Repeating myself:
fraggle092 wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 10:08 pm
..... our whole way of living is based round consumption, endless economic growth and cheap energy.
Its the way our society is set up, and we cannot opt out.
Après moi, le déluge

Britkid
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Re: electric vehicles in chile

Post by Britkid » Sun Dec 23, 2018 6:20 pm

My wife shared with me some info about the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV (plug in hybrid electric vehicle) SUV which you can buy in Chile. It has a small battery and its pure-electric range is only just over 30 miles/ 50 km and then it goes on to petrol. However if your daily driving (school, work, shops etc) only took you to places 15 miles or less from your house, then this might be a reasonably good environmental choice for Chile, and you could install an electric charging point at home and do a majority of your miles electric. If you tend to go to places 40-50 miles away on a daily basis it's less attractive.

Being the best of both worlds (electric for environment and petrol for range) is quite attractive, but it does mean that you have both battery related costs and petrol engine type repairs to deal with.

I'm not sure whether this car is better for the environment or not than a very small second hand petrol or diesel car. Perhaps still slightly better.

But if you are in the habit of dropping 20 or 30 million pesos on a new or nearly SUV, if you are going to do that anyway, then this might be worth a look.

Because it has a normal sized petrol tank, you could drive it anywhere in Chile even where there are no charging points whatsoever. You just need to get an electrician to come and check out your home electric supply and put an adapter on it, assuming you can park near enough to your house to make this work.

I drove this car on a rental this year (just the regular rather than PHEV version) and it seemed OK.

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Re: electric vehicles in chile

Post by nwdiver » Tue Dec 25, 2018 4:14 pm

Toyota Prime is another short distance EV then on to gas car.......good for a short commute....
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Re: electric vehicles in chile

Post by HybridAmbassador » Wed Dec 26, 2018 3:43 pm

nwdiver wrote:
Tue Dec 25, 2018 4:14 pm
Toyota Prime is another short distance EV then on to gas car.......good for a short commute....
Yeah, but it seems that Britkid is not looking to invest in somewhat "pricier" category of EVs, perhaps he better looking to "Chinos" built EVs ?
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nwdiver
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Re: electric vehicles in chile

Post by nwdiver » Thu Dec 27, 2018 4:47 am

HybridAmbassador wrote:
Wed Dec 26, 2018 3:43 pm
nwdiver wrote:
Tue Dec 25, 2018 4:14 pm
Toyota Prime is another short distance EV then on to gas car.......good for a short commute....
Yeah, but it seems that Britkid is not looking to invest in somewhat "pricier" category of EVs, perhaps he better looking to "Chinos" built EVs ?
Or the Smart Fortwo.......they only make them EV as of this year......with Tesla tech batteries and control systems....
It's all about the wine.

Britkid
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Re: electric vehicles in chile

Post by Britkid » Mon Dec 31, 2018 6:00 pm

My prediction on page 4 that they would start charging people just to enter Venice has come true already.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46721456

It looks like just a very small charge at the start, just for day trippers, and maybe just for cruise passengers.

I suspect that they are testing the waters however and eventually all tourists will have to pay a fee just to enter the city.

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Re: electric vehicles in chile

Post by admin » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:12 am

Copec announces the first network of 20 charging stations is operational.

https://www.latercera.com/pulso/noticia ... os/478234/
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Britkid
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Re: electric vehicles in chile

Post by Britkid » Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:51 pm

Thanks for sharing this. Good news. The real news here is that you can now drive from Santiago to Concepcion with an electric car, which wasn't possible before.

The other noteworthy thing is that these are fast chargers. 30 minutes or so.

There is one place on the drive with 98km between charging points which is between Chimbarongo and San Rafael and a similar distance (just under) between Chillan and Concepcion. So you need >100km range to be able to do this.

You can see the map here: https://ww2.copec.cl/voltex

It would be nice if Copec could announce their plans for the next few years. I'm still waiting to find out when you can drive anywhere between La Serena (or maybe Valle Elqui) and Puerto Montt (or maybe Chiloe) with an electric car.

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