Electric Cars in Chile

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HybridAmbassador
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Re: Electric Cars in Chile

Post by HybridAmbassador » Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:45 pm

Britkid wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:26 pm
Hybrid Ambadassador, in interview Shinzuo Abe, Toyota’s powertrain general manager said they "want to make solid-state batteries available in the early part of the 2020s decade. But in fact, that won’t be on a mass-production basis. We will begin with small-lot and trial production. We would never experiment on customers. Like you said, 2030 might be a more realistic timeframe.” https://insideevs.com/toyota-says-solid ... cade-away/
Yep, Toyota always trying to fool you. When the first Hybrid, the Prius launch was rumoured, Toyota said first Hybrids by year 2010.. But they launched the first Prius in Japan in 1997 then came to the US in 2001 !
My ex-colleges at Toyota tells me differently that Toyota will have a few pre - production new gen battery aka "solid state battery" available for sale domestically next year and if Panasonic battery, the new partner building the "solids" for Toyota can bring its cost much cheaper than the current de-facto standard, the Lithiums, Toyota~Lexus will have the new wave of super efficient-fast charging Solid state battery equipped cars ready in 2022 for world-wide sales.. I will be jumping in first to get the fast charging time new gen Toyota solid state battery cars !

https://www.motor1.com/news/174711/toyo ... e-ev-2021/
First EV from the company will arrive in 2019.
We feel like we’ve heard this countless time already, but here we go again. A new report in Japan’s Chunichi Shimbun claims Toyota is working on a new type of battery that will allow for significantly increased driving range and reduced charging time.

Quoting the newspaper, Automotive News says the battery will be used in an all-electric vehicle that will be based on a new platform and will arrive in the beginning of the next decade, most likely in 2022. The battery will be solid-state, which means it will use solid electrolytes rather than liquid ones for safety reasons.



Most of the current lithium-ion batteries need at least 20 to 30 minutes to recharge to a certain charge level and offer range of up to 250 miles (400 kilometers). Toyota wants to reduce the charging time down to the time spent for reloading an ICE vehicle.

According to the Japanese newspaper, the new electric vehicle will be launched at first in Japan in 2022. So far, Toyota has declined to comment on the report.

"There's a pretty long distance between the lab bench and manufacturing," CLSA auto analyst Christopher Richter commented to Automotive News. "2022 is ages away, and a lot can change in the meantime."

The automaker plans to start mass production of electric vehicles in China by 2019. The first model to reach the production lines won’t be a dedicated electric car and will be based on the current C-HR. The crossover will be re-engineered to accommodate an electric motor and a battery pack, located somewhere under the floor.

For long years, Toyota believed plug-in hybrids and hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles are the future, but last year the company decided to switch its focus on completely electric vehicles. A new in-factory division, headed by president Akio Toyoda, will work on those EVs.

Source: Chunichi Shimbun via Automotive News
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Britkid
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Re: Electric Cars in Chile

Post by Britkid » Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:53 pm

mem wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:54 pm

But you can get Priuses for under 10mil all day long and they pull 50mpg+
After that the Lexus CT200h...pulls almost 40mpg, but I really don't appreciate the styling of the ct200h. There are Lexus IS and GS and RX hybrids but the RX's have this bad vehicle acceleration control problem where they surge unexpectedly. The IS and GS hybrids just aren't available in chile it seems.

For best mileage and value, and viability the Prius seems to be king...after that a diesel car can get 40mpg or a Lexus ct200h gas hybrid. After that its diesel SUVs or gas hybrids in the 30s.
A Prius, or a Honda Civic hybrid, might be OK for us. I assume the other options you mentioned are not in the under 10 million range. Lexus is pretty much an expensive Toyota brand I think, I saw one 2014 model Lexus RX 450 Hibrido 2014 available for 17 million. Doesn't really fit our budget.

I think we could perhaps buy the Prius/Civic hybrid, as long as I can get my wife to agree that we still need to buy about 2010-2012 model year, she wants new or almost new. Also will she agree to go from an SUV/4WD/Jeep type that we currently have to a more standard family car that's lower to the ground and not as good for dirt roads. I don't think any hybrid or electric cars, used or new, that are SUV/4WD/Jeep type cars and in our price range.

Alternative maybe hold out for a few years with the current petrol cars and see what else is available then and how the electric charging points network has progressed.

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nwdiver
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Re: Electric Cars in Chile

Post by nwdiver » Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:17 pm

Britkid wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:13 pm
41southchile wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:33 pm

My other question is, doesnt Chile need a shit tonne more renewable electricity in their grid before they start promoting the use of electrc cars? otherwise its just transfering the problem elsewhere, i.e if everyone starts charging their electric cars then that energy is still coming from Chiles grid which is still very reliant on burning fossil fuels, unless the charging stations are going to be powered by renewables ?
First of all, keep in mind that charging stations will only account for a minority of the electric power used by a car. The majority of charging is usually at home or work so it will be grid based.

Chile's electricity grids are currently at about 0.4kg CO2e/kWH. Pure electric cars can do about 0.35kwH/mile. So per mile electric cars in Chile are doing 0.14kg (140 grams) of CO2e/mile.

A typical petrol car, doing say 27 miles per gallon, is causing 415 grams of CO2e per mile driven. That's three times as much. That means that electric cars in Chile are reducing their carbon footprint per mile by two thirds.

If you compare the very best hybrid, that's about 50 miles per gallon, they are putting out 225 grams of CO2e per mile. So, if you switched from such a car to a pure electric car in Chile, you would still be cutting CO2 by about 40% per mile.

If the charging stations are done with solar panels, that will help a little and reality will be slightly better than above calculations, but for the above assume charging stations are on the grid also or used for only a small minority of charges.

These numbers are all a little bit debatable since each car (both electric and gas) varies in efficiency, and the carbon intensity of Chile's grid is constantly changing a bit, and there are some variations I've never been able to explain between some different sources in terms of what the carbon intensity of Chile's grid actually is.

However what's clear is that the CO2 impact of electric cars is less. Calculations for the US showed that even in heavily coal burning states, where the carbon emissions per unit electricity was well above average, it was still somewhat worse for the environment (in Co2 per mile) to drive a gas/petrol car than an electric one.

The other factor to consider is that buying an electric car is also an investment for the next several years. If the savings (on CO2) are 67% per mile today, it may amount to 70%-75% over the lifetime of the car.

Of course, you could put solar panels on your house and use those to drive your electric car. With that, your CO2 per mile savings are even better.

The other thing is that petrol/gas and diesel cars are causing air pollution within cities. If you live in a city the argument for an electric car is even stronger than if you live in the sticks since any air pollution caused in the production of the electricity for the car will at least be far away from population centres, whereas fuel cars release their emissions right onto the heaviest concentration of people.
Solar panel on the house can't charge a car that is away all day ;).
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Re: Electric Cars in Chile

Post by at46 » Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:23 pm

HybridAmbassador wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:16 pm
Tesla claims that the 300,000 Teslas on the road.

[/quote] Now let get that figure correct. The guesstimate puts that number at roughly 200k...


It's estimated that a little more than 200,000 Tesla-made vehicles are on the road today. However, with the launch of the Model 3, that number could balloon to as many as three million vehicles on the road by 2023, Adam Jonas, a Morgan Stanley analyst, said in a note to clients Tuesday.
[/quote]

Morgan Stanley is Tesla's underwriter, together with Goldman. Just saying...

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nwdiver
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Re: Electric Cars in Chile

Post by nwdiver » Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:24 pm

HybridAmbassador wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:10 pm
Pure electric cars is a no go for me for the moment. Its usable driving range is very poor.. Most electric cars only manages perhaps 160 km or so at very anemic average speed. Tesla is much better with its range when starting with a fully charged battery and still only manages to perhaps less than 400 true kms... Also, I don't have the patience to plug it in while on the road and even at fast charging takes more than 40 minutes.

Now let talk the new battery technology being developed by guess who ? Toyota ! Solid state battery is the answer vs today's lithium battery and the lithiums takes too long for them to charge up and very limited driving range. The Toyota's Solid state battery, at present state, only taking 3~4 minutes to fully charge and that filling time is average petrol filling time as comparison. Toyota is aiming for its Solid state battery to be ready and affordable by 2020~2021 for sale world-wide. In meantime, the Hybrid vehicle and Toyota is the pioneer in that field so better off to stick with a very reliable 1 million unit sold since its inception of 2001. Toyota~Lexus Hybrids is the way, if you looking to going fully electrified...


Tesla is unveiling its much-awaited Model X Tuesday, which has many of the same features as the Model S with a few extra perks.
With the same range as the Model S (250 to 270 miles depending on the model bought) the Model X differs in its ability to seat more and all-wheel drive standard (as opposed to optionality).
Here is a list of todays electric carshttps://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-range-ver ... ion-2015-9
The Tesla X has been out for over a year........
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at46
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Re: Electric Cars in Chile

Post by at46 » Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:54 pm

Britkid wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:38 pm
at46 wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:05 pm
The issue with battery electric cars for personal transportation is that not only grid-related problems have never been resolved anywhere yet, but they're also extremely dangerous when fully charged (they explode into an extremely high temperature fireball and so fast you have no chance of getting out).
What do you mean grid related problems have never been resolved. That doesn't look right at all. Do you mean no countries have a large enough network of charging points, or no countries have enough renewable energy in the electricity mix?
Let's just look at the last mile in Santiago. You'd have to not only rewire the entire city to enable night-time charging of one million vehicles at their parking lots in apartment buildings, but you'd also have to install some extremely efficient firefighting equipment for every parking spot. And given how the current lipo batteries burn, it's easy to see that's just not gonna happen.

The issue of supplying Santiago with so much power at night is also pretty big, if not bigger. And I'm not even talking about it all being environmentally friendly. I for one don't care if it all comes from coal or LNG as long as the power plant is removed far enough from the lungs of seven million people.

Santiago used to have trams. Some streets still have the rails that are now almost completely sunk into the asphalt. That's a good technology that comes with decades of know-how, is a lot cheaper to install and run, is safe, extremely efficient and user-friendly, and hugely improves the city's 'look and feel'. I can see whole neighborhoods in the Centro being restored to their former glory by trams, after being almost completely destroyed by cars and shitty buses.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnZuMfq6kec

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41southchile
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Re: Electric Cars in Chile

Post by 41southchile » Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:42 pm

at46 wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:54 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnZuMfq6kec
He should of taken some target shooting practice first or edited those out, did he land any ? Still pretty cool video though, who would of guessed it, and he said that was from his vapor (the safe alternative, mmmm)
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Re: Electric Cars in Chile

Post by at46 » Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:52 pm

41southchile wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:15 pm
Here it is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ibVPHazop8
RE China and Lithium
Pretty good talk, thank you. The guy looks like an older brother of Gustavo Fring from 'Breaking Bad' :)

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41southchile
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Re: Electric Cars in Chile

Post by 41southchile » Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:05 pm

at46 wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:52 pm
41southchile wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:15 pm
Here it is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ibVPHazop8
RE China and Lithium
Pretty good talk, thank you. The guy looks like an older brother of Gustavo Fring from 'Breaking Bad' :)
:lol: , he does.
Well seems the battery thing happens in E cigs too , have your nether regions blown off when an e cig explodes in your pocket or risk lung cancer smoking the old fashioned way. Hmm tough choice
https://youtu.be/L7QDci3K9hE
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mem
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Re: Electric Cars in Chile

Post by mem » Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:30 pm

Britkid wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:53 pm
mem wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:54 pm

But you can get Priuses for under 10mil all day long and they pull 50mpg+
After that the Lexus CT200h...pulls almost 40mpg, but I really don't appreciate the styling of the ct200h. There are Lexus IS and GS and RX hybrids but the RX's have this bad vehicle acceleration control problem where they surge unexpectedly. The IS and GS hybrids just aren't available in chile it seems.

For best mileage and value, and viability the Prius seems to be king...after that a diesel car can get 40mpg or a Lexus ct200h gas hybrid. After that its diesel SUVs or gas hybrids in the 30s.
A Prius, or a Honda Civic hybrid, might be OK for us. I assume the other options you mentioned are not in the under 10 million range. Lexus is pretty much an expensive Toyota brand I think, I saw one 2014 model Lexus RX 450 Hibrido 2014 available for 17 million. Doesn't really fit our budget.

I think we could perhaps buy the Prius/Civic hybrid, as long as I can get my wife to agree that we still need to buy about 2010-2012 model year, she wants new or almost new. Also will she agree to go from an SUV/4WD/Jeep type that we currently have to a more standard family car that's lower to the ground and not as good for dirt roads. I don't think any hybrid or electric cars, used or new, that are SUV/4WD/Jeep type cars and in our price range.

Alternative maybe hold out for a few years with the current petrol cars and see what else is available then and how the electric charging points network has progressed.
Yeah you can get the Lexus ct200 hybrid EV cars for less than 10mil...like a 2014. These are the best mileage vehicles available in chile besides a Prius.

http://m.chileautos.cl/cemagic.asp?mare ... =0&sort=fd

The lexus RX hybrid and gas are bad ideas. Like I said, they surge unexpectedly and crash in to things. No recent year is safe...believe me I owned a 2006 and I came within millimeters of buying one here until I realised they still haven't fixed this on the newer models. Not safe for families, kids, etc.

I wish they had the IS, ES, or GS hybrids here, I just can't find them

Outside of the hybrids it's going to be diesel SUVs or cars for the next best mileage.

The dirt road/clearance thing is important. If you can have two vehicles its optimal...a Prius for pavement driving and a diesel SUV for mixed/dirt all other.

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41southchile
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Re: Electric Cars in Chile

Post by 41southchile » Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:32 pm

And something else to put into the mix.
https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-chile ... KKCN1MS1L8
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Re: Electric Cars in Chile

Post by HybridAmbassador » Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:39 pm

Panasonic supply its electric car batteries to Tesla and Toyota. Panasonic~Toyota's nickel metal and lithium batteries are composed of multi cell modules to make a complete battery. In Prius case it has 26 to 28 modules and when a battery performance goes down, you could just replace the bad module instead of whole battery. The Toyota Hybrid vehicle batteries are warranted for 10 years/150 k miles in the US all cost included. However, the fleet of for taxi use Toyota Hybrids such as the Priuses and Camrys can go beyond 650 k miles according to taxi companies ...

So if you are thinking of high cost for batteries replacement for, if Toyota, it will cost way less than you thinking. Last year, I sent a re-built Hybrid NiMetal battery for a friend in Santiago for his 1997 Camry Hybrid and the cost was around US $1 plus k Dollars including freight via DHL.
Note: also Toyota's Hybrid cars batteries either with Nickel-Metal or Lithiums, the deep recycle and re-charging for its batteries is set to when down to 20% then its recycle begins to up the charge face to up to 80% of its 100% capacity. So down to 20% then up to 80% is the non memory creating SOC ( state of charge ) parameter for Panasonic built batteries.

I'm pretty sure even for Tesla use, Panasonic is applying the same format learned with Toyota engineering. But the future of high power, ultra fast charging for electric vehicle use battery is the " Solid state battery" devised by Toyota engineering and Panasonic to manufacture them. Imagine when you running out of juice electric energy, you can even call upon any house to sell you the necessary electricity (first you have to rig it to their in house electric wires?) or just carry with you a long extension electric cable and just socket in for juice and for topping off time, only will take 4~5 minutes! Oh and that is with 120V in comparison. If charging with 240V it could be even faster.. So if I am to rely for future electric powered cars of future, lemme wait till the Toyota Solid State battery is out in a few years then I will relinquish my Hybrid vehicles in my stable and moving to ownership of new gen ZEV... Toyota, let go places..Ha,ha,haaa..
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