The Pinera administration 2.0

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Britkid
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Re: The Pinera administration 2.0

Post by Britkid » Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:35 pm

tiagoabner wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:26 am
Thoughts on Piñera's 'state of the union' address from yesterday? I saw lots of promises and not enough plans on how to deliver.
I agree - a lot of nice words but not much concrete promises and details. Let's give a little time for some concrete plans to emerge, but not much time. There is a lot of development planned, parks, trains etc, but no tax rises I don't think (I seem to recall this government was even cutting taxes) so not sure how they are paying for it.

Wasn't too impressed by the talk of airport development and then 5 minutes later talk of Chile being climate neutral. Doesn't really add up. I think there is supposed to be a more detailed climate change plan coming out soon. I'll remain skeptical until I see it.

I thought his talk of more tramites being available to do online was good.

I did get the sense in the talk once again that Chile is a stable functioning democracy, much closer to the best countries than the worst.

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Re: The Pinera administration 2.0

Post by 41southchile » Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:35 am

Britkid wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:35 pm
tiagoabner wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:26 am
Thoughts on Piñera's 'state of the union' address from yesterday? I saw lots of promises and not enough plans on how to deliver.
I agree - a lot of nice words but not much concrete promises and details. Let's give a little time for some concrete plans to emerge, but not much time. There is a lot of development planned, parks, trains etc, but no tax rises I don't think (I seem to recall this government was even cutting taxes) so not sure how they are paying for it.

Wasn't too impressed by the talk of airport development and then 5 minutes later talk of Chile being climate neutral. Doesn't really add up. I think there is supposed to be a more detailed climate change plan coming out soon. I'll remain skeptical until I see it.

I thought his talk of more tramites being available to do online was good.

I did get the sense in the talk once again that Chile is a stable functioning democracy, much closer to the best countries than the worst.
Time is ticking away, excuses are getting tired about how the opposition screwed the economy, future presidential hopefuls are already making noises. Time for Piñera to act a bit more and he hasnt got much longer.
Yeah there's a more detailed climate plan coming out in October I read the other day.
Triming the number politicians etc just sounds like populism, its insignificant and minor in the scale of fiscal spending but it makes headlines.
Instead of reducing the numbers I'd like politicos to do eithics or civics courses and and maybe a bit of philosophy and some other training to prepare them for political life.
Some things were ok, but it's still Piñera and as I said the other day, mediocre nothing transformational.
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Re: The Pinera administration 2.0

Post by Britkid » Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:18 pm

It was funny how there were loads of cheers in the room and clapping when he talked about cutting the politicians. Weren't the very people he was talking about cutting the ones doing the clapping? I'm not sure if some of them were being ironic, or if they really wholeheartedly support the measure, or if they were just doing it for appearance's sake.

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Re: The Pinera administration 2.0

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:31 pm

Infrastructure projects just confirmed rather than presented as Piñeras great building plan. Puerto de Gran Escala San Antonio is mostly a private project officially announced by Batchoshit in her final months, Ruta de la Fruta and tren Santiago a San Antonio y Valpo and Paso Las Leñas are logical supporting infrastructure projects to PGE and Valpo functioning as the main southern cone entry point of the future Martime Silk Road.
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fraggle092
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Re: The Pinera administration 2.0

Post by fraggle092 » Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:12 pm

Britkid wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:18 pm
It was funny how there were loads of cheers in the room and clapping when he talked about cutting the politicians. Weren't the very people he was talking about cutting the ones doing the clapping? I'm not sure if some of them were being ironic, or if they really wholeheartedly support the measure, or if they were just doing it for appearance's sake.
The phrase "when hell freezes over" comes to mind here. An honest audience response would have been dead silence.

A reduction Is never going to happen as long as those parasites are the highest-paid parliamentarians in the OECD, they know it and they don't care about anything apart from the money and their eternal feuding, as evidenced by the poor-quality laws they churn out. They get to set their own dieta parlamentaria as well. The graph is from 2014, so the differential between Chile and the rest has probably widened since then.
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41southchile
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Re: The Pinera administration 2.0

Post by 41southchile » Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:28 am

eeuunikkeiexpat wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:31 pm
Infrastructure projects just confirmed rather than presented as Piñeras great building plan. Puerto de Gran Escala San Antonio is mostly a private project officially announced by Batchoshit in her final months, Ruta de la Fruta and tren Santiago a San Antonio y Valpo and Paso Las Leñas are logical supporting infrastructure projects to PGE and Valpo functioning as the main southern cone entry point of the future Martime Silk Road.
They seem to do that a lot the politicos (half the things announce in the Los Lagos plan a few months ago) are just recycled announcements made to look like their own. Everyone starts to see through that after a while.
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Re: The Pinera administration 2.0

Post by Britkid » Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:30 pm

I do think politicians' salaries should be reduced in Chile.

However, do we really want a society where the top politicians, who decide difficult decisions for the country, get paid less than say the manager of a soft drinks country, a well established dentist, or a management consultant or life insurance actuary? If the answer if yes, then, implicitly, we want a society where the top talent goes into the jobs above and the mediocre talent makes society's decisions....if you pay less, you get less. We want good people as politicians.

Politician is a job where you are under the spotlight, under pressure, anyone can criticize you, you and your family scrutinized in the media. We have to make the job attractive somehow to get good people into it.

I think the solution is a small salary for politicians, but with very high bonuses. The bonuses are given out depending out performance as judged by a survey of the electorate or some other method.

This guy in Mexico's government in 2007 or 2008 (don't recall the precise details of this) when oil price was like $150 a barrel or something (and rising, and some were predicting prices to go beyond $200) did his analysis and figured that the price was volatile and likely to decline and decided to sign a bunch of contracts where he offered a guaranteed price around the current level into the future guaranteeing some stability for Mexico. The price crashed later, and his decision made US$8 billion for Mexico. Other governments like Venezuela just spent all the money and crashed the whole country as soon as the price dropped. We need talented people in politics, and talent goes where the money is.

If the talent stays out of politics that clears the field for communists, populists, and whoever else to come along and screw up whole countries while the really talented people are busy doing unimportant jobs like accountant or selling perfume or mobile phones.

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Re: The Pinera administration 2.0

Post by admin » Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:01 pm

think it is Singapore that has parliament member pay bonuses tied to gdp. the country makes money, they make money.

if chile did something like that, watch how fast the little commies in Congress turn pro-business capitalist.
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Re: The Pinera administration 2.0

Post by PXYC » Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:37 am

Wow, the difference from chilean parlamentar salary to ocde average is huge! I had no idea lol

However.. it is only a tiny fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a country's spending, and it is indeed populism to present it as an idea for the nation unless the goal is to present ideas whith close to zero impact, actually the real impact would be to discuss public workers salaries but there are lots of votes there and it is not so convenient to discuss those ideas.. :D

Also, in Chile defense, on those countries appearing at the bottom of the graph, particularly south europe, it is common for parlamentaries to own lawyer offices working for big companies and earning way more than 1M euros per year. So yeah either way there is always money on politics and my only power is what I do with my vote, and who I vote in or out of politics.

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Re: The Pinera administration 2.0

Post by fraggle092 » Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:47 pm

PXYC wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:37 am
Wow, the difference from chilean parlamentar salary to ocde average is huge! I had no idea lol
That is literally only the half of it. And that obviously doesn't include what they make "on the side".
PXYC wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:37 am
However.. it is only a tiny fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a country's spending, and it is indeed populism to present it as an idea for the nation unless the goal is to present ideas whith close to zero impact,
You clearly don't follow Chilean politics, and seem to be saying that gross abuse like this is OK, that its not relevant, well I disagree. These people are supposed to set a moral example for the rest of country. And Parliamentary abuse and corruption is only the visible tip of the whole corrupt public service iceberg.
PXYC wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:37 am
actually the real impact would be to discuss public workers salaries but there are lots of votes there and it is not so convenient to discuss those ideas.. :D
"public workers salaries" by which I take it you mean government employees is the only growth area in Chile these days, and it's rife with Spanish Practices, Ñoquis, and corruption. Public Service is more like Self-Service these days.
PXYC wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:37 am
Also, in Chile defense, on those countries appearing at the bottom of the graph, particularly south europe, it is common for parlamentaries to own lawyer offices working for big companies and earning way more than 1M euros per year. So yeah either way there is always money on politics and my only power is what I do with my vote, and who I vote in or out of politics.
For Chilean parliamentarians, its only a part-time job as well. Even so, latecoming and absenteeism are quite common.
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grafico_diputados-1024x852.png
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Finally, here's Diputado "Florcita Motuda", pictured at the recent presidential state-of-the-nation address, complete with BatMan mask. Think he's worth USD $20,000+ a month of taxpayers money?
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Agencia-Uno-4-818x460.jpg
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Re: The Pinera administration 2.0

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:51 pm

Too bad no Like button for the previous post.
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Re: The Pinera administration 2.0

Post by PXYC » Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:51 pm

fraggle092 wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:47 pm
PXYC wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:37 am
Wow, the difference from chilean parlamentar salary to ocde average is huge! I had no idea lol
That is literally only the half of it. And that obviously doesn't include what they make "on the side".
PXYC wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:37 am
However.. it is only a tiny fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a country's spending, and it is indeed populism to present it as an idea for the nation unless the goal is to present ideas whith close to zero impact,
You clearly don't follow Chilean politics, and seem to be saying that gross abuse like this is OK, that its not relevant, well I disagree. These people are supposed to set a moral example for the rest of country. And Parliamentary abuse and corruption is only the visible tip of the whole corrupt public service iceberg.
PXYC wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:37 am
actually the real impact would be to discuss public workers salaries but there are lots of votes there and it is not so convenient to discuss those ideas.. :D
"public workers salaries" by which I take it you mean government employees is the only growth area in Chile these days, and it's rife with Spanish Practices, Ñoquis, and corruption. Public Service is more like Self-Service these days.
PXYC wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:37 am
Also, in Chile defense, on those countries appearing at the bottom of the graph, particularly south europe, it is common for parlamentaries to own lawyer offices working for big companies and earning way more than 1M euros per year. So yeah either way there is always money on politics and my only power is what I do with my vote, and who I vote in or out of politics.
For Chilean parliamentarians, its only a part-time job as well. Even so, latecoming and absenteeism are quite common.
.
grafico_diputados-1024x852.png
.
Finally, here's Diputado "Florcita Motuda", pictured at the recent presidential state-of-the-nation address, complete with BatMan mask. Think he's worth USD $20,000+ a month of taxpayers money?
.
Agencia-Uno-4-818x460.jpg
You make valid points regarding this matter, and I never said it is OK did I?
My argument is whether this should be a matter for the annual "ideas for the nation" thing. You realize these type of discussions usually receives passionate opinions, much more than the other boring ideas that are of greater impact (on economy, public resources, health, education, private investment, etc), so ok, it's a valid point, but it could also be a good strategy not to discuss the real important projects (or lack of them), and in the end not to really do anything about this as well.
What do you think?

The only thing I clearly don't agree with you is regarding diputado "Florcita", I don't support or would vote for him, but I have no problem if people vote for him, the logic on such people mind is to vote for people that can make fun of institutions which ultimately answers to peoples fear of institutions having so much power that you cannot make fun of them.

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