BCG Vaccine

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frozen-north
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Re: BCG Vaccine

Post by frozen-north » Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:52 pm

nikotromus wrote:
I will need to find a couple of books in the coming months by non government paid shills and try to form my own conclusions.
If you are actually going to do some reading, then you should look at the increase on the diagnosis of ADHD. And also consider that one drug that became very popular for its treatment was Ritalin, a Schedule II controlled drug, on the same list as oxycodone. And nobody has made any links between ADHD and any vaccines.

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nikotromus
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Re: BCG Vaccine

Post by nikotromus » Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:56 pm

Thanks for the advice. I'll check it out.

Yes, I do read books. A shocking habit in a smartphone society. ;-)

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nwdiver
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Re: BCG Vaccine

Post by nwdiver » Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:30 pm

bert.douglas wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:10 am
Wasn't the vaccine-autism link completely debunked ? The doctor who started the scare was found to be a fraud in court in England. He faked the data.
Yes, and many further studies everyone quotes where based on his data.....

60 km east of Vancouver are a bunch of righteous Christian righters who don't believe in vaccines and have started measle and meningitis outbreaks that have killed several children, people pease vaccinate your kids or live isolated on a mountain somewhere so you don't affect others....

Due to bs policies on vaccinations and a generation who grew up without having childhood diseases guys like Sidney Crosby in their late twenties are getting the mumps.........wtf.......

Polio and measles are back and tb is on the rise, only an idiot with Internet access and the ability to read can't see the benifits of vaccination...........don't google the negative read the positive......
It's all about the wine.

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nikotromus
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Re: BCG Vaccine

Post by nikotromus » Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:08 pm

I'll be honest I'm really caught off guard at the overwhelming animosity. Like, how dare anyone even question the safety of injecting mercury into infants or expressing the urge to look into it further. Stifle debate. The science is settled. And by the way, The same government overseeing the safety of these vaccines tells us that Oswald shot Kennedy and the terrorists did 911.

Are people really convinced that a handful of folks not getting vaccinated is causing people to die in droves, and that these diseases aren't being caused by a completely open borders policy and taking on refugees from the third world because of Washington's wars?

I did get good info on this from Admin, so, I'm grateful for that, and well worth the cyber bullying I endured today. :D

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tiagoabner
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Re: BCG Vaccine

Post by tiagoabner » Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:43 pm

Dude, the US doesn't run all researchers in the world. Some degree of paranoia is always healthy, as in a "I'm not going to tolerate, this is bullshit unless proven" scope. Refuting data with zero proof it's not true is simply not logical. It would be the same as saying I could fly, and disregarding the quite obvious facts that show otherwise.

Also, do some research on smallpox if you want to see how effective vaccination can be. If you still want to not vaccinate after that, at least make an informed decision. As admin mentioned, there are a truckload of vaccines that have different compositions: look out for one that doesn't have the chemicals you fear, if that's the case.

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Space Cat
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Re: BCG Vaccine

Post by Space Cat » Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:48 pm

I'm not sending anti-vaxxers out of the country because they'll make people in other countries suffer too. Ideally, some reclusive eco-community – without much contact with the outside world. This way they will be also free from Monsanto, US government conspiracies, and evil Soros initiatives.

And excuse me for being catty, I'm tired of arguing with this kind of ideas a long time ago. Kudos to tiagoabner and others for being a voice of reason.

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tiagoabner
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Re: BCG Vaccine

Post by tiagoabner » Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:53 pm

I quite literally don't really care about what ends up happening here, I'm not going to have children in Chile anyway. I just hope that whoever reads this topic does some research before making this kind of decision, as having a child die to a preventable disease is something I don't wish to anyone.

malma
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Re: BCG Vaccine

Post by malma » Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:20 pm

The evidence seems to indicate that timerosal (ethylmercury) is safe but i had the same concerns given many developed countries have eliminated its use.

In any case I am pretty sure BCG does not contain timerosal (you can check with your doctor), and you get a cool scar!

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nikotromus
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Re: BCG Vaccine

Post by nikotromus » Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:01 pm

Just curious Spacecat. Did you get your kids vaccines with or without the mercury preservative?

picalena
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Re: BCG Vaccine

Post by picalena » Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:27 pm

I will wade into this one because I actually really know something about it.

Our firm "debunked" the Wakefield studies. If you are interested in learning why the science was junk science (worse really than junk science because he clearly had a bad ulterior motive rather than just innocently optimistically believing in his research), I can explain it to you. However, a good in-depth search of medical literature online will provide a precis on it. Wakefield was an incredible fraud, and he deserved everything that happened to him. He was only in it for the money and not at all for anything remotely philanthropic, benevolent, or altruistic. What Wakefield ended up doing to world health was a travesty that obviously has still not been corrected. He is personally responsible for the morbidity and mortality of many children. Do not be fooled by his marketing strategies.

As to the increasing rates of autism, there are many other very plausible explanations. Up to 95% of autism cases are related to genetic defects. In developing (or third world) countries, this is often due to consanguinity, which is a nicer word for what we used to call in-breeding. Genetic defects proliferate at a high rate in a shallow gene pool. However, in developed countries, the higher rate of genetic defects leading to autism can be explained by other factors, such as increasing incidence of advanced maternal age. Genetics alone does not explain all of autism, though, and it is thought that the genetic defects are often mediated by some other environmental factor. One likely suspect is GBS (or Strep B positive) mothers: either from exposure to the Strep B itself or exposure to the antibiotics that are administered intrapartum to Strep B positive mothers. Both increasing maternal age and the increased prevalence of GBS and use of antibiotics to treat GBS easily account for the upsloping graphs. There are other viable theories floating around as well, and better studies than Wakefield's.

Completely agree that the uncontrolled and unfettered immigration policies are responsible for the outbreaks of long-gone diseases in the US. Unfortunately, the only way to protect against that is to vaccinate even in developed countries. I do agree that some vaccination is ill-advised. I don't like the chicken pox vaccinations, because if they don't take, an adult contracting chicken pox can end up with horrible complications including sterility. I do understand the desire to avoid shingles in the older population, so I see that if we vaccinate against chicken pox and no one gets the pox when they are young, we will likely reduce the incidence of shingles. That is a tough balancing act. HPV is probably a good one for kids to get, as we are going to see a huge uptick in HPV related cancers over the next few decades. In a country like Chile, where TB, hepatitis, and other nasty diseases are not uncommon enough and there is a constant influx from nations of risk, I wouldn't want to avoid a vaccine based on very bad science, is all I am saying.

cheers,
pl
A woodsman was once asked, “What would you do if you had just five minutes to chop down a tree?” He answered, “I would spend the first two and a half minutes sharpening my axe.” - Dubious source on the internet

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nikotromus
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Re: BCG Vaccine

Post by nikotromus » Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:47 pm

I'm really confused. You made great arguments but didn't tell anyone to go to hell. I'm not sure I can process what you've written here.

picalena
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Re: BCG Vaccine

Post by picalena » Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:03 pm

Meh. One more glass of wine, and I will be telling people to go to hell. Or worse. Happens all the time.

I also make a living making great arguments that confuse people. It's a gift.

cheers,
pl
A woodsman was once asked, “What would you do if you had just five minutes to chop down a tree?” He answered, “I would spend the first two and a half minutes sharpening my axe.” - Dubious source on the internet

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