I love my city, I love my new friends here, I'm ok with where the country is going, and I'm planning to stay here for the rest of my life (hopefully dozens of years).
- Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
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- Location: Megalith of unknown origin near my digs, south V Region coast
One is to believe what isn't true;
the other is to refuse to believe what is true.
- Søren Kierkegaard
For those who think they can come here and get something for nothing - live cheaply - patronize the locals - this isn't the place for you. As for critisizing the forum posters who try to tell you the truth as they see it = grow up.
Let me try to clarify something that I think may have gotten lost in all of this, especially those that were not involved in or haven't read the numerous other threads that led to this one. The point of my post was to offer some advice to Bargain HunterS, with an S on the end. In other words, other people who are looking at Chile as an investment opportunity, whether it be to flip real estate or to start their lifelong dream of some type of farming/ranching or opening a unique kind of restaurant that they think doesn't otherwise exist in Chile or whatever. Bargain Hunter chose his handle, but it is appropriate for a number of people who show up here thinking Chile is going to be great because they read some awesome article on the internet. Much of what I had to say also applies to those like us who came to Chile to live because we wanted to, didn't have to, and weren't depending on the Chilean economy to survive. But I was really trying to hone in on the important things that the "burn the boats" people ought to have a better grasp on before they come to Chile. Because of where we live, we have seen so many ex-pats "invest" their life savings in coming to Chile for one of these reasons, lost it all, and then go home. Some who have been here for a very long time (over a decade) and finally give up and go back. Worse, though, are the ones that can't just leave, because they have hundreds of thousands of dollars tied up in something that they can't sell. Others don't make it very long but still lose lots of money. I don't know of a single one that has been successful at any type of "investment" or running a business. They eke it out for a while, maybe even several years, but in the end, Chile is death by a thousand cuts.
When I put up my post, I had not yet read in excruciating detail the OP's posts on the pickup artist forum. Once I did, I could see why he thought the post was aimed solely at him. Basically, everything I had said had already been told to him by other folks over there. He ignored their advice also, in the same way disregarding the advice of people who had lived in and worked in Chile in favor of his one-day jaunt in Santiago or his apparently very general eyeballing of a map on the internet. I say very general, because he was asking for specific names and towns on the eastern coast of Chile. And on top of that, he not only got drugged in Medellin because he ate a cookie that a stranger off the street offered to him but somehow also got his phone pick-pocketed, robbed at gunpoint, and again robbed when his backpack was stolen while he slept on a bus in Peru. He complained repeatedly on the other forum about the lousy service and attitudes of the natives in the countries he was in (bar and club owners have the nerve to demand that he actually order something instead of sitting there to game chicks), and even said that everyone from the taxi driver up was trying to fleece him all the time. So I am sure, that reading my post, it all started to sound personal, but the fact of the matter is that it wasn't personal, it was general. And apparently others that have experienced Chile have come to many of the same conclusions. I did try to make the point at the end that there is a lot of good in Chile for those that come to put down roots and take a different attitude, and I stand by that. I think the people on this forum that are happy and love Chile are those people. But even some of those who came with the right attitude and really tried still got chinga-laid in the end by some distinctly Chilean nightmare. I still think that bargain hunters who have never spent any time here and think they are going to make out on some great investment are looking at the wrong country. Full stop. If you don't want to heed that advice, there is a number at the bottom of the page that you will need later.
And "te la meten" donde? he,he,heee..!Gloria wrote:Thumbs up Picaleña!....now tell me...between us....is ¨chinga-laid means the same as ....."te la meten doblada? Inquiring minds want to know.
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Excellent advice and brutally honest portrayal of life in Chile. It has often felt like death by a thousand frustrations.picalena wrote:Bargain Hunter(s) – This thread is for you
I am moving this to a separate thread, so that you can yell at all of us over here. Despite the fact that I think you are a raving asshat, I am going to take the time to address a few things and also give you some friendly general advice that will apply not only to you but to other “Westerners” who are hot to move to Chile because of all the awesome fluff pieces they are reading on the netterwebs.
First off, to you personally “Bargain Hunter” a/k/a “Australia Sucks” a/k/a “Recovering Beta”: No one was mean to you off of your first post. For those of us who live in Chile, your first post was a little ridiculous, because you were seeking something that doesn’t exist. I personally thought you were an old forumite that I miss dearly, so I was actually paying you a compliment. You were the one who bristled up super quickly when others were cheekily trying to suggest that your expectations were out of hand. I don’t really need to explain your attitude to you. I think the folks over on the Roosh V forum did that pretty well. But you have devolved on this forum into pure dickdom. At first, I laughed out loud about your question about the effect of tsumanis on coastal towns. How could anyone who is looking at Chile ask such a stupid question? But then your sarcastic retort about “two anecdotal examples” is beyond insulting to those of us who have friends who lost everything. There are more than two “anecdotal examples” of coastal cities being devastated by tsunamis. And they have happened for centuries. The impact on Chile has been enormous. You might want to read up on Bachelet’s response to one of those and the catastrophic effect it had on people. I really can’t even begin to explain what a douche you are to respond to MJSaywell that way. It just makes me madder the more I think about your response to that. But I will try to put that aside to give some general advice to you and the others who want to move to Chile.
1. Chile is not an investors dream. I have countless “anecdotal examples” of Westerners who have burned the boats and come to Chile and lost everything. There is no flipping of properties here. Your dream of being a farmer, a rancher, a vintner, opening a restaurant, building a living community, having rental properties, you name it – your dream is flawed and it will fail. That is because of all of the reasons below. And no, you can’t survive “teaching English” in Chile.
2. Big things are hard in Chile. Buying a property is hard. Getting residency is hard. Getting citizenship is harder. Finding a school for your kids is hard. In some places, buying a car is hard. All the big things you think you can do because you can do it in your country just can’t be done here. No, you are not special, you are not going to get around the residency requirements. No, there is not some magical English school that will meet your education needs, let your children in, and be reasonably priced. I have posted in detail about this on another thread. Now even getting a RUT so you can buy your property from far away is hard. No, you can’t import your car, you can’t buy one in the Zona Franca and take it to Santiago, you can’t bring one in on a temporary visa.
3. Here’s the most important bit of advice: LITTLE THINGS ARE HARD IN CHILE. I suspect this is what ultimately drives everyone crazy that comes to this country from the US. After you have suffered through the hard big things, there is no rest for the weary. For thousands of reasons that you are not going to change, every little fooking thing is hard in Chile. You will be amazed at how frustrating it can be. Money in and out of the country to pay your bills? Hard. Drove a car without a toll tag from the north end of Santiago down south and out of Santiago and have to pay those tolls and not get a fine for every single one of them that has to be paid and adjudicated at every individual court? Hard. Walk down the street with no dogshit on your shoes. Hard. Add to that the constant annoyances of barking dogs, beggars coming into restaurants, the insanity of the drivers, the parties all night. It is really hard. That place you are looking at in Vina cracks me up. Here’s a tip for you: in Vina/Valpo, the phrase “good locomotion” means collectivos zooming up and down your street all day, all night. It means the gas truck barreling up the street, clanging their rhythm on the tanks. You know why that ugly ass freaking wall is built there and why it is “mixed construction?” Because at least once (probably more), someone’s car or moto has ended up in the living room. Great locomotion, though.
4. There is NO Nirvana city/town in Chile. Period. Every place has problems. You just have to figure out if you can survive them. I would NEVER live in Concepcion, and I actually try to drive through the city as fast as I can whenever I have to. Other people love it. I think Santiago is a shithole. Some people love it. Others hate the south, we see the appeal to it. But every place has BIG issues.
5. CHILE IS A SCAMMER’S PARADISE. Everyone is trying to scam you all the time. I was having coffee with a friend of mine a year or so ago. She is Chilean, and her family has lived in Chile for generations. Apparently, an article had just come out revealing that Chileans had always thought they just cheated foreigners, but the Chileans had all just figured out that they cheat each other the most. You, my friend, based upon your questions and attitudes, are a prime target for scamming. Those women you are “daygaming” or whatever are going to fleece you for all you have. And more.
6. Culturally, Chile is unique. You will have a difficult time understanding the undercurrents that drive Chile. You will be incredibly frustrated by the pervasive inefficiencies and the resistance to change inefficiencies, which are intentional. Chile is very socialist, bordering on communist. For this reason, it is better to be inefficient, because that makes jobs. Lots of jobs. Lots of inefficient jobs. You better read up on the whole Allende/Pinochet thing, and you need to KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT about that, because that fire still burns hot, and you will make enemies quickly if you take the wrong side. Alcohol and substance abuse is rampant in Chile. So many people die as a result – car accidents (“the cause is still under investigation”) and related health issues. Chileans are superstitious by nature and do strangely contradictory things. An anecdotal example is bundling a baby up in wool blankets in the summer so that it doesn’t catch cold, but then putting it on the dashboard while driving around in the car. They smoke, and smoke, and smoke, and smoke. As a “Westerner”, you will be constantly amazed at the cultural differences, and you will need to learn to adapt, because you are not going to change anything. You will also perceive them as “rude” in many ways, so you better start getting your panties out of a wad. They cut in line, they will ignore you when you are talking to them, they don’t walk on the “right side” of the sidewalk, they will not yield, they honk, they don’t show up on time (or at all), they don’t call to let you know they aren’t coming, they will give you the completely wrong directions because they just don’t know where you are going, but this is all acceptable behavior. So get over yourself. If you think people on this forum are rude, you will never make it in Chile.
7. Chileans don’t speak English. You are going to have to speak Spanish. If you think you are going to get around without learning Spanish, you are sadly mistaken.
Chilean slang has dozens and dozens of terms for “f**ked”, and there is a reason for that. So if you want to come to Chile and get some good where you can, then do that. But as someone else said, come to Chile to live, not to invest. Put your roots down, suck it up, and be a contributor. Be ready for some hard times. But there is good here for those who are ready to put their tail between their legs and learn. You don’t seem like you are there yet.
I would add one phenomenon that I have noticed. Chile changes people, and those who cannot change, leave. Must be something about the planetary energy at this part of the world.
And as for why people only share the negative stuff... perhaps they do not want a slew of expats here.
I believe you are wrong. There are quite a few foreigners happy to be here. One that comes to mind is Peregrine77, in fact he proclaimed his happiness recently in one of your posts...read..."With your experience and attitude, the main surprise maybe how well you adapt to this beautiful and interesting country.
We have only lived in the states for over 60 years, never traveled much, and now call
We are so happy here that we have bought cemetery plots!"[/quote]
Yes, of course I am wrong. My point was is that people are more likely to post negative comments than positive. The one positive above, I did take not of, but it's vague and unspecific....saying, "I love it here... It's a beautiful country! I wanna die here," doesn't help anyone make any decisions about anything. Any response requiring real advice and answers is more often negative and condescending than not. No cierto.
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Have others observed a similar thing within the circle of people they know and have heard about - in other words do you think that all or almost all fail at running businesses/investments? Or is it more of an even mix with a fair number of successes?picalena wrote:
I don't know of a single one that has been successful at any type of "investment" or running a business.