Bargain Hunter(s) Read This

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Andres
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Re: Bargain Hunter(s) Read This

Post by Andres » Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:57 am

There are many redundant systems on an Air Warfare Destroyer which could have alerted ship 'operators' to the danger.
None of them are subject to "hacks". Though I do not know the intimate details of designs of each component, my expectation is that none (or almost none) have chips which would be affected.
On top of all the 'automated' systems such a vessel has, both in its combat system and separate navigation system, there are also "Mark 1 eyeballs" which should have detected the commercial vessel and avoided it. They (the "Mark 1 eyeballs") are not subject to hack or faulty chips, only arrogance and incompetence.
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frozen-north
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Re: Bargain Hunter(s) Read This

Post by frozen-north » Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:37 am

Andres wrote:
There are many redundant systems on an Air Warfare Destroyer which could have alerted ship 'operators' to the danger.
None of them are subject to "hacks".
Yep. Highly unlikely, unless nobody learnt anything from history.
President Jimmy Carter’s national-security adviser, Zbigniew Brzezinski, was asleep in Washington, D.C., when the phone rang. His military aide, General William Odom, was calling to inform him that two hundred and twenty missiles launched from Soviet submarines were heading toward the United States. Brzezinski told Odom to get confirmation of the attack. A retaliatory strike would have to be ordered quickly; Washington might be destroyed within minutes. Odom called back and offered a correction: twenty-two hundred Soviet missiles had been launched.

As he prepared to call Carter and recommend an American counterattack, the phone rang for a third time. Odom apologized—it was a false alarm. An investigation later found that a defective computer chip in a communications device at NORAD headquarters had generated the erroneous warning. The chip cost forty-six cents.

http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk ... by-mistake

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Re: Bargain Hunter(s) Read This

Post by admin » Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:41 am

Andres wrote:There are many redundant systems on an Air Warfare Destroyer which could have alerted ship 'operators' to the danger.
None of them are subject to "hacks". Though I do not know the intimate details of designs of each component, my expectation is that none (or almost none) have chips which would be affected.
On top of all the 'automated' systems such a vessel has, both in its combat system and separate navigation system, there are also "Mark 1 eyeballs" which should have detected the commercial vessel and avoided it. They (the "Mark 1 eyeballs") are not subject to hack or faulty chips, only arrogance and incompetence.
Yea, yea, I know. All tung-in-cheek.

Much easier to hack an 18 year-old sailor that is texting that "nice Russian girl that really wants to meet him", rather than looking out the window.

Ironic that the only defense against a horny teenager is a Trojan. :shock:

:lol:
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Re: Bargain Hunter(s) Read This

Post by admin » Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:43 am

The really scary thing is, if they were not hacked, then they have way, way bigger problems in the U.S. Navy these days. Like how to drive a ship.
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frozen-north
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Re: Bargain Hunter(s) Read This

Post by frozen-north » Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:32 pm

frozen-north wrote:
Andres wrote: There are many redundant systems on an Air Warfare Destroyer which could have alerted ship 'operators' to the danger.
None of them are subject to "hacks".
Yep. Highly unlikely, unless nobody learnt anything from history.
admin wrote: The really scary thing is, if they were not hacked, then they have way, way bigger problems in the U.S. Navy these days. Like how to drive a ship.
Well, may be they didn't learn.

...a Defense Science Board report in January, 2013. It found that the Pentagon’s computer networks had been “built on inherently insecure architectures that are composed of, and increasingly using, foreign parts.”

General James Cartwright—the former head of the U.S. Strategic Command ...... —thinks that it’s reasonable to believe the system has already been penetrated. “You’ve either been hacked, and you’re not admitting it, or you’re being hacked and don’t know it,”



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Re: Bargain Hunter(s) Read This

Post by HybridAmbassador » Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:52 pm

Now in-search-the after incident, there were 10 body crashed and or drowned. Those Aegis type destroyers has a wafer thin side belly armor that any low pressure strike can pinch a hole. Unfortunately, those ships has to be made light and fragile ?
Then taking many ballistic missiles in lieu of weight saving. But 4 destroyers went through these mishaps in a few month time.
It is all Obama's fault in pulling budget off defense allocation, thus encountering these abnormal incidents.
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Re: Bargain Hunter(s) Read This

Post by admin » Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:01 pm

“You’ve either been hacked, and you’re not admitting it, or you’re being hacked and don’t know it,”
That is the funniest thing I have heard all day. I am totally having a t-shirt printed up with that on it.
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Re: Bargain Hunter(s) Read This

Post by bert.douglas » Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:38 pm

I hope we eventually get to read a report that explains what happened. It would read something like this: Ensign Smith was posting on facebook. Ensign Jones was reading <banned word>. The video chart plotter was supposed to be showing GPS position, but was actually decoupled and was instead showing an estimated dead-reckoning position. Training requirements were waived. A software update had recently been applied that changed the way the nav-computer transitions between modes. There was a top down change in culture that de-emphasized training in traditional seamanship and ship handling, in favor of high tech weapons.

Ships do not maneuver like racecars. Everything happens in extreme slow motion.
Collisions take probably 20 minutes of continued inattention to happen.

My bet is that the people on watch were not properly trained, and were not paying attention to driving the ship.

Even if the steering computer was hacked, they should still be able to put it in reverse and come to a quick stop.

Andres
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Re: Bargain Hunter(s) Read This

Post by Andres » Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:09 pm

admin wrote:The really scary thing is, if they were not hacked, then they have way, way bigger problems in the U.S. Navy these days. Like how to drive a ship.
Exactly.

And buffons (in Washington and elsewhere) control more nuclear firepower than ever before.
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Re: Bargain Hunter(s) Read This

Post by hlf2888 » Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:13 pm

I am leaning towards hacked also.

December 2016 F/A-18 Hornet crashes near Japan
June 2017, USS Fitzgerald crashes with container ship near Japan
August 2017, F/A-18 fighter jet crashes in Bahrain.
July 2017 KC 130 Hercules aircraft crashed in Mississippi. 15 marines and one sailor died.

Military.com | 3 Feb 2017 | by Hope Hodge Seck
In the last 12 months, the Marine Corps has sustained a troubling nine major aircraft crashes, resulting in 14 fatalities -- most of which occurred in a tragic January 2016 helicopter collision -- and 11 lost aircraft.

While many of these incidents remain under investigation, the head of Marine Corps aviation said findings so far reveal human components to the mishaps.


Google US military drones crashing...Washington Post article

Andres
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Re: Bargain Hunter(s) Read This

Post by Andres » Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:13 pm

HybridAmbassador wrote:It is all Obama's fault in pulling budget off defense allocation, thus encountering these abnormal incidents.
I disagree.
Basic seamanship, piloting and navigation does not require a high budget, just competence.
How many other navies and/or commercial operators are grounding their vessels or in collisions?
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I accept chaos. I'm not sure whether it accepts me.

frozen-north
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Re: Bargain Hunter(s) Read This

Post by frozen-north » Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:00 pm


The U.S. Navy is Screwed
Gary Wetzel

Despite campaign promises to rebuild the military from the twin disasters of sequestration and the 2011 Budget Control Act combined with nearly 16 years of combat deployments, the first Trump budget for the Navy does little to look to the future.

The Navy has been in a long budgetary downward spiral since the Cold War ended.

Three successive administrations—Clinton, Bush, and Obama—didn’t prioritize resources in a way that kept the Navy properly funded and a pillar of strength. One political party is not to blame—this is a bi-partisan collapse of responsibility and abject ignorance across 25 years.

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/the-u- ... 1795662679

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