what is the level of relations between men and women?

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wiscondinavian
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Re: what is the level of relations between men and women?

Post by wiscondinavian » Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:19 am

Sorry to skip over your post greg-judy, but I wanted to respond to this.
admin wrote:To be honest, the kiss thing freaks most other cultures out.
"The kiss thing" can freak Chileans out too! Here in Chile guys tend to shake hands the first (few) time(s) using a hand-shake, then when they know each other they do the cheek kiss. My Chilean fiance semi-freaked out when a guy in Argentina pulled him in for a kiss the first time they met.

I understand how people think a hand-shake is cold, but then again, I greated many friends with hugs in the US, and honestly find those a lot more warm than a kiss on the cheek.

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Re: what is the level of relations between men and women?

Post by Donnybrook » Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:47 am

The men kissing thing is relatively new in Argentina. It took a little getting used to the first time DH was approached with a pucker by a male friend. But surely it is not true that kissing freaks most cultures out? In Europe it is common - even a right/left/right again combo - and in many cultures men hold hands. I find it awkward now in the northern hemisphere (aside from London where it is fairly common) when I don't know what to replace the kiss with. A handshake seems so formal. I remember working in a school in another SA country where the locals complained the British/Australian/Canadian staff were rude as they didn't greet others properly in the morning but just mumbled something quick and walked on. Different cultures, different styles.

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greg~judy
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Re: what is the level of relations between men and women?

Post by greg~judy » Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:53 am

~
no worries wiscon~ it just took a 4 yr. old thread to think about a few things...?
but - just so our "point" for the resurrection this thread remains in the fore...
we will bump up to the front again...!
:idea:
greg~judy wrote:~
so - how about this for a dead-thread-bump - its been languishing for 4 years...!
but we wanted to put this article - somewhere...??
here ya go --- perhaps it may elicit a few opines on the current m~f status quo...?
:|
Femicide on the rise in Chile...

Rates of femicide increased 30.7 percent in first half of 2012.

The number of women being killed by their husbands and other domestic violence complaints are on the rise in Chile, according to a new study by Universidad Pedro de Valdivia and women’s rights organization Activa.

So far in 2012, there have been 17 recorded “femicides,” or women murdered by their husband or partner, in comparison with 13 in the first half of 2011, showing an overall increase of nearly 31 percent. There were 40 total cases of femicide in 2011 and 49 in 2010, illustrating a downward trend overall.

“The situation is even more severe given the high rate of uncertainty in crimes of this type," Activa Director Gloria Requena said. "We need to add to this number the crimes that go unregistered and should be classified as femicide but are ultimately punished as other crimes like homicide.”

The government’s National Women’s Service (Sernam) had been holding publicity campaigns to encourage victims to report incidents. It also established a protection network of assistance centers.

Activa asserts that more is needed to reduce these numbers, calling for changes to the current laws regarding domestic violence and improvements to the definition of “femicide” and “habitual relationship.” At present, murders committed early in a relationship or after casual encounters do not fall under either category and are thus charged as homicides. Femicide is punishable by the harshest murder sentence possible in Chile (15 to 40 years’ imprisonment).

The study also suggests improving government treatment programs, providing more victim shelters and considering legal penalties for those who witness abuse and do not report it.
http://www.santiagotimes.cl/national/hu ... study-says
Things are not what they appear to be: nor are they otherwise.
--- Surangama Sutra
“If we want everything to stay as it is, everything will have to change."
--- Giuseppe Tomasi di Lamedusa

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Re: what is the level of relations between men and women?

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:59 am

One reason why many a previously abused chilena feel they have nothing to lose by giving the foreigner a try.
There are two ways to be fooled.

One is to believe what isn't true;

the other is to refuse to believe what is true.

- Søren Kierkegaard

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Re: what is the level of relations between men and women?

Post by zer0nz » Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:05 am

greg~judy wrote:~
no worries wiscon~ it just took a 4 yr. old thread to think about a few things...?
but - just so our "point" for the resurrection this thread remains in the fore...
we will bump up to the front again...!
:idea:
greg~judy wrote:~
so - how about this for a dead-thread-bump - its been languishing for 4 years...!
but we wanted to put this article - somewhere...??
here ya go --- perhaps it may elicit a few opines on the current m~f status quo...?
:|
Femicide on the rise in Chile...

Rates of femicide increased 30.7 percent in first half of 2012.

The number of women being killed by their husbands and other domestic violence complaints are on the rise in Chile, according to a new study by Universidad Pedro de Valdivia and women’s rights organization Activa.

So far in 2012, there have been 17 recorded “femicides,” or women murdered by their husband or partner, in comparison with 13 in the first half of 2011, showing an overall increase of nearly 31 percent. There were 40 total cases of femicide in 2011 and 49 in 2010, illustrating a downward trend overall.

“The situation is even more severe given the high rate of uncertainty in crimes of this type," Activa Director Gloria Requena said. "We need to add to this number the crimes that go unregistered and should be classified as femicide but are ultimately punished as other crimes like homicide.”

The government’s National Women’s Service (Sernam) had been holding publicity campaigns to encourage victims to report incidents. It also established a protection network of assistance centers.

Activa asserts that more is needed to reduce these numbers, calling for changes to the current laws regarding domestic violence and improvements to the definition of “femicide” and “habitual relationship.” At present, murders committed early in a relationship or after casual encounters do not fall under either category and are thus charged as homicides. Femicide is punishable by the harshest murder sentence possible in Chile (15 to 40 years’ imprisonment).

The study also suggests improving government treatment programs, providing more victim shelters and considering legal penalties for those who witness abuse and do not report it.
http://www.santiagotimes.cl/national/hu ... study-says

it would be interesting to see the statistics on men killed by wife... there are some crazy chilenas out there :)

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greg~judy
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Re: what is the level of relations between men and women?

Post by greg~judy » Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:09 am

zer0nz wrote:it would be interesting to see the statistics on men killed by wife...
there are some crazy chilenas out there :)
indeed z~0~z...
a most interesting comparison that would be...
we will leave it to p~x to research~report, when he finds time?
:|
Things are not what they appear to be: nor are they otherwise.
--- Surangama Sutra
“If we want everything to stay as it is, everything will have to change."
--- Giuseppe Tomasi di Lamedusa

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Re: what is the level of relations between men and women?

Post by La_Tini » Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:26 am

men will always be 'sexist' and women will always think we're 'sexist'.. its just the way things are.. i dont think its a cultural thing.. i think its why we're so different..
Weird theory. Men are not naturally sexist nor do women think you are. My Chilean boyfriend isn’t. My Chilean male friends aren´t. It´s absolutely cultural and if you are raised in a non-sexist environment, chances are, you´re not going to be sexist either.
for example.. do men look at women?.. yes they do.. everywhere.. its how we are wired.. now perhaps men in Australia or the US or Canada dont react the same way as men here but they STILL do it.. are Chileans worse cos they are obvious?..
I think you´re confusing things here. Of course you´ll look at attractive women. So do I. Or at attractive men. Humans are just attracted by physical beauty, it´s something fascinating and no one needs to be ashamed about it. What I reject is sexually harassing behaviour, you know, you can just look at a woman or you can stare at her from Iop to bottom as if you were x-raying her intimate parts. Or you could do weird things with your tongue while she´s passing by. It´s not about being obvious, but about being outright offensive and disrespectful.
which leads me to this point.. why women wanna be treated as equals?.. i mean how do men treat each other?.. how do men speak to each other?.. i dunno if women really understand this..
If you stopped to just “think” about what women like and want, you might be surprised about our capacity to understand things. Why we wanna be treated like equals? Seriosuly? Maybe because it would be great to be paid the same money like men for an equivalent job. Just to name one example.
like i dont think my wife would like it very much if i treated her they way i treat my mates.. dont get me wrong.. its not like i treat my mates badly.. i just treat em like guys.. no tip toeing cos their feelings may get hurt.. brutal honesty.. i know for sure that my wife doesnt handle brutal honesty very well.. what is equality.. is it in JUST some areas? (which wouldnt make it EQUAL)
I hear this argument ALL the time. Of course we want to be treated equally. Now, one great male argument in this context is: Ah, so you don´t want men to help you lifting heavy stuff? Of course I do, but for strictly biological reason. No one argues that men overall are stronger and have more muscles than women do. So it´s just common sense that the stronger person would help the weaker one. I if saw a weaker female friend of mine trying to lift something, logically I would help her, too. And as to speaking with "brutal honesty" to your wife, you´re comparing apples with pears. I don´t see why there should be a difference in how we treat our male or female mates, but of course that´s not the same way in which you treat your partner, independently if s(he)´s a man or woman. You know, if you´re having a fight with your mate, you can just opt to not see him for some time, but with your wife it´s more complicated, since you live with her, might have kids... so it´s just common sense to treat her with more delicacy.

So, resuming my point, women just want to be treated with respect and in Chile as a woman you´re confronted with disrespectful behavior almost on a daily basis. I find it the most shocking in the job-related area, for example, some clients I have to deal with have shown really inappropriate behavior, for example a guy who after a strictly job-related meeting , before leaving, caressed my face as if I was a little child or a cute dog or something like that. Another thing which I hate is when strangers (like taxi drivers etc.) call you insistently "mi amor", it´s just "nada que ver".
By the way, I've always wanted to know something that I never asked before but have always been curious about. Do foreign women get shocked or something by the way we chileans greet others (cheek kissing and stuff)?
No.

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Re: what is the level of relations between men and women?

Post by tombrad2 » Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:50 am

"respect" is a tricky business, depends a lot of cultural things, implicit agreements, etc. I remember well once, in a dinner with people I met for first time, we salute each other with check kisses -no sexual nor disrespect implications between us- and when I try to do it with an Indian lady (she was with her husband there) she showed such panic that embarrassed to all of us. Frankly I think she was wrong and was so rude as if I in a dinner in Indian in a strictly vegetarian home bring my own grilled pork ribs, because is my preference.

Many behaviors in latino countries may be seen as sexist but they are really not. And well, some dudes are actually "pasados para la punta" like the taxi driver calling "mi amor" to an unknown lady, but a mild disgust gesture usually fix this problem, remember, latinos don´t go straigth to the point, allways indirect :)
Arica in a nutshell (updated) at :
http://tomas-bradanovic.blogspot.com/

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wiscondinavian
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Re: what is the level of relations between men and women?

Post by wiscondinavian » Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:18 pm

zer0nz wrote:
greg~judy wrote:~
no worries wiscon~ it just took a 4 yr. old thread to think about a few things...?
but - just so our "point" for the resurrection this thread remains in the fore...
we will bump up to the front again...!
:idea:
greg~judy wrote:~
so - how about this for a dead-thread-bump - its been languishing for 4 years...!
but we wanted to put this article - somewhere...??
here ya go --- perhaps it may elicit a few opines on the current m~f status quo...?
:|
Femicide on the rise in Chile...

Rates of femicide increased 30.7 percent in first half of 2012.

The number of women being killed by their husbands and other domestic violence complaints are on the rise in Chile, according to a new study by Universidad Pedro de Valdivia and women’s rights organization Activa.

So far in 2012, there have been 17 recorded “femicides,” or women murdered by their husband or partner, in comparison with 13 in the first half of 2011, showing an overall increase of nearly 31 percent. There were 40 total cases of femicide in 2011 and 49 in 2010, illustrating a downward trend overall.

“The situation is even more severe given the high rate of uncertainty in crimes of this type," Activa Director Gloria Requena said. "We need to add to this number the crimes that go unregistered and should be classified as femicide but are ultimately punished as other crimes like homicide.”

The government’s National Women’s Service (Sernam) had been holding publicity campaigns to encourage victims to report incidents. It also established a protection network of assistance centers.

Activa asserts that more is needed to reduce these numbers, calling for changes to the current laws regarding domestic violence and improvements to the definition of “femicide” and “habitual relationship.” At present, murders committed early in a relationship or after casual encounters do not fall under either category and are thus charged as homicides. Femicide is punishable by the harshest murder sentence possible in Chile (15 to 40 years’ imprisonment).

The study also suggests improving government treatment programs, providing more victim shelters and considering legal penalties for those who witness abuse and do not report it.
http://www.santiagotimes.cl/national/hu ... study-says

it would be interesting to see the statistics on men killed by wife... there are some crazy chilenas out there :)

While I'm sure there is definitely some Chilena on Chileno violence here, I'm sure it's way under-reported even compared to the other way around. People openly guffaw at the fact that I earn more money than my fiance, because , duh, he's studying still and I'm a college grad. What I don't understand is why they would word a law in any way that protects women from spousal abuse more than men. While yes, it happens less, it still happens, and why should a women get away with plain.jane homocide for killing her husband/partner, while when a man kills his wife/partner, he's set away for extra years?

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Re: what is the level of relations between men and women?

Post by La_Tini » Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:45 pm

And well, some dudes are actually "pasados para la punta" like the taxi driver calling "mi amor" to an unknown lady, but a mild disgust gesture usually fix this problem, remember, latinos don´t go straigth to the point, allways indirect :)
Unfortunately, that´s often not the case. In a situation like that, I use all kind of subtle or not so subtle behaviour to show that I´m not comfortable with it, but strangely this seems to rather encourage some men. And if you should say anything against it, then: voilà, you´re the hysteric feminist who tries to see everywhere things she can get offended about (That´s at least the typical reaction on this forum on any remark that could somehow be classified as feminist).

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Re: what is the level of relations between men and women?

Post by tombrad2 » Wed Jul 11, 2012 1:13 pm

Well, nothing wrong with feminism or to get offended with something you consider inappropriate, but there are "desubicados" around the world and all we have to deal with them. In Chile we use to ignore those people, indifference often works well in those situations
Arica in a nutshell (updated) at :
http://tomas-bradanovic.blogspot.com/

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La_Tini
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Re: what is the level of relations between men and women?

Post by La_Tini » Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:08 pm

but there are "desubicados" around the world
Of course, it´s not a Chilean thing...

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