El legado del Che, tomo XVIII

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Piloto
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Re: El legado del Che, tomo XVIII

Post by Piloto » Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:38 am

Meh, I still don't know how to edit the quote function! So, as best I can do, Patagoniax wrote:

"And near that ferry is where I met the young Mercedes (la française, from Lyon) who lived with me in Vancouver back then"

It's a big world, but sometimes not so much... In Vancouver, did you know a fellow from Minnesota named Dave Biery? Not me, another Dave.

Cheers!
Dave

john
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Re: El legado del Che, tomo XVIII

Post by john » Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:53 am

patagoniax wrote:
chernandez wrote: Che did not quite fit in my education as much as let's say Stalin, who rarely gets credit for being a fucking psycho murderer of millions.
There are reasons for that.

During the 1930s and 1940s both the UK and the US "progressives," which included many writers (including Hemingway) and their publishers, actively or otherwise supported Stalin and often turned a blind eye to the pogroms. This attitude remained in the UK through the 1950s. We would do well to remember the difficulty that George Orwell had in finding UK publishers for his works that were interpreted as being critical of Stalin. Unsurprisingly, many of the "progressives" of the education industry in both North America and the UK still maintain a code of minimal exposure of the atrocities of Stalinism. The Che is simply heir to this treatment.

Alas, progressives did support Stalin but as a counterweight to Hitler who they viewed as the greater of the two evils. It seems you have conveniently overlooked the fact that Hitler lost WWII on the Eastern front, otherwise we might all be speaking German. And, yes, Stalin was responsible for mass murder (as was Hitler and the other despots you have mentioned) ergo his infamous quip when discussing the pogroms, "... fewer Russians, but better Russians."

Che was a 'true' revolutionary leader and it is an affront to compare him with Stalin and the others.
One must care about a world one will not see.
--- Bertrand Russell

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JHyre
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Re: El legado del Che, tomo XVIII

Post by JHyre » Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:23 am

Progressives also supported Stalin well before June 22nd, 1941, including when he was filling GUlags, slaughtering his officers and starving millions of "kulaks". Think Walter Duranty and a long, long list of fellow travellers, some in high places. Further, the support of the Left followed Stalin's fortunes. For example, criticism of Germany was muted shortly before September 1, 1939, when Hitler and Stalin were allies, and re-awoke towards summer 1941 for some odd reason. Useful idiots (term coined by Stalin's mentor Lenin) indeed, nothing has changed, that crowd has simply found new thugs (e.g. Islamicists, Palestinians, China via Thomas Friedman, etc.) to back against the liberal democracies.

John Hyre

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Red
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Re: El legado del Che, tomo XVIII

Post by Red » Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:44 pm

JHyre wrote:Progressives also supported Stalin well before June 22nd, 1941, including when he was filling GUlags, slaughtering his officers and starving millions of "kulaks". Think Walter Duranty and a long, long list of fellow travellers, some in high places. Further, the support of the Left followed Stalin's fortunes. For example, criticism of Germany was muted shortly before September 1, 1939, when Hitler and Stalin were allies, and re-awoke towards summer 1941 for some odd reason. Useful idiots (term coined by Stalin's mentor Lenin) indeed, nothing has changed, that crowd has simply found new thugs (e.g. Islamicists, Palestinians, China via Thomas Friedman, etc.) to back against the liberal democracies.

John Hyre
And the other side had hero Rumsfeld- and all that his kind represents- working deals with Saddam Hussein. Hey, why no uproar then??? Apparently not a convenient thing to <ahem> point out at the time. Plenty of examples from that side of the aisle.

[quote="patagoniax And how the progressive/liberal education industry has tidily kept that messy part of history away from the classrooms.[/quote]

And Hollywood deigned to "educate" us- via John Wayne movies, fer crissake- on what it meant to be an American. Horseshit, I say. In fact all you guys are doing is offering up the "conventional wisdom" -from both directions. Yeah, give us more myths, more legends. That'll clear everything up and limit the number of "useful idiots" out there :roll:

Life is sorta like driving a car- except that the progressives and (so-called) conservatives have jointly removed the steering wheel. Now we swerve side to side, smacking the guardrails, and scratch our heads and wonder why the old Rambler is in such sad shape.

The fix is in and has been for a long time. It transcends partisan politics.

Edit: and it'll be a cold day you-know-where that anyone should care what the S Florida Cubanos say or think. Talk about useful idiots....
"Don't believe them; don't fear them; don't ask anything of them"

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