Bullying in the work place

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burt46
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Bullying in the work place

Post by burt46 » Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:57 pm

One of the things i have noticed working in Chile is that I’m surprised with the amount of comments/gestures made between fellow employees that are just downright disrespectful. The expats generally get the hardest hit, however between Chileans it can be equally as bad. The hardest people I’ve had to deal with throughout my time in Chile are juniors in my office who i manage. All my friends are Chilean and i have four distinct groups of friends and i have never had problems with anyone outside the office. Age groups are all more or less the same. As could be expected its only the males of the office.

The comments i have personally received are by far too strong to repeat here and cover a wide variety of distasteful topics. I am managing and training these guys. It eventually resorted to me having strong words to knock them off their high horses. Since then very little problems. However, perhaps this is normal in the working environment? But I’d class it as bullying and feel bad for the people on the receiving end. :?

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zer0nz
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Re: Bullying in the work place

Post by zer0nz » Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:01 am

race, size, class?..........

burt46
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Re: Bullying in the work place

Post by burt46 » Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:09 am

zer0nz wrote:race, size, class?..........
Race..........................yes,
size...........................not really
class and education.........yes,
sexist comments............yes,
appearence..................yes,

I'm bald and used to get frequently slapped on the head as a greeting by a junior. ( :roll: )

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zer0nz
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Re: Bullying in the work place

Post by zer0nz » Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:12 am

burt46 wrote:
zer0nz wrote:race, size, class?..........
Race..........................yes,
size...........................not really
class and education.........yes,
sexist comments............yes,
appearence..................yes,

I'm bald and used to get frequently slapped on the head as a greeting by a junior. ( :roll: )
by junior you mean the 60 year old man who delivers the mail, pays the bills and goes to the bank?

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Re: Bullying in the work place

Post by burt46 » Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:17 am

No a 28 year old junior engineer. Sorry, i realise junior is generally referred to the guy who does the errands.

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zer0nz
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Re: Bullying in the work place

Post by zer0nz » Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:25 am

burt46 wrote:No a 28 year old junior engineer. Sorry, i realise junior is generally referred to the guy who does the errands.
sure its bulling and not more a respect?, its not done in a way its friendly and he feels comfortable working with you to the point where he jokes with you?

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Re: Bullying in the work place

Post by burt46 » Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:42 am

That was just one example. Others in the office are on the receiving end of this type of behavior. I was trying to establish if this is normal in office environments in Chile.

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Re: Bullying in the work place

Post by JHyre » Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:15 am

You probably want to be more specific. Sometimes certain hyper-sensitive, politically-correct Americans & Europeans (and I'm not implying that you fit that description) mistake someone not toeing their personal political line as rude. When that's the case, I'd recommend getting a job in an American university, a nice safe cocoon full of similar narrow-minded, sanctimonious sorts. As is oft mentioned here, Chileans might gawk or comment based on race, but it is generally the product of curiosity, lack of exposure and/or a culture that does not have the racial baggage of, say, the US. Chileans will make frank comments about one's weight that in the US would be viewed as rude....though given rates of diabetes and heart disease in the US, perhaps a bit more social pressure and rudeness on that subject are called for.

Some of it is cultural and the opposite of rude. The pat on the bald dome is an example of that. My brother in law is a well-respected dentist with hair on the sides but not up top. He gets called "peladito" all the time, and even a little pat here & again. It's generally a sign of affection, he knows it, and goes along with it by adding a comment or quip, and always a smile. Caveat: See "class" below, who pats you matters and affects the reaction. Americans have the largest "personal space" of any other culture I've ever experienced, Chileans are much more physical where space and contact are concerned. And when in Chile....

Latins do have an overly strong sense of place and class....indeed of all their "isms", that is the strongest & ugliest one. They can be absolute bastards about the subject, in oh-so-many ways. The relationship in the workplace is much more heirarchical and less egalitarian. I would absolutely expect to see bullying based on status, with class at the front of the line.

The relationship between men and women is different. I prefer it over the PC Puritanism of the US, but it sometimes goes too far in the other direction for my tastes, especially where physical contact is concerned. Some teenage punk grabs one my daughters and she'll hand him his arm if I don't do it first. The younger generation in Chile, like elsewhere, has less in the way of manners and work ethic than their predecessors....given the different baseline in Chile, dealing with youths who deviate from that baseline can be jarring for foreigners.

John Hyre

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zer0nz
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Re: Bullying in the work place

Post by zer0nz » Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:28 am

JHyre wrote:You probably want to be more specific. Sometimes certain hyper-sensitive, politically-correct Americans & Europeans (and I'm not implying that you fit that description) mistake someone not toeing their personal political line as rude. When that's the case, I'd recommend getting a job in an American university, a nice safe cocoon full of similar narrow-minded, sanctimonious sorts. As is oft mentioned here, Chileans might gawk or comment based on race, but it is generally the product of curiosity, lack of exposure and/or a culture that does not have the racial baggage of, say, the US. Chileans will make frank comments about one's weight that in the US would be viewed as rude....though given rates of diabetes and heart disease in the US, perhaps a bit more social pressure and rudeness on that subject is called for.

Some of it is cultural and the opposite of rude. The pat on the bald dome is an example of that. My brother in law is a well-respected dentist with hair on the sides but not up top. He gets called "peladito" all the time, and even a little pat here & again. It's generally a sign of affection, he knows it, and goes along with it by adding a comment or quip, and always a smile. Caveat: See "class" below, who pats you matters and affects the reaction. Americans have the largest "personal space" of any other culture I've ever experienced, Chileans are much more physical where space and contact are concerned. And when in Chile....

Latins do have an overly strong sense of place and class....indeed of all their "isms", that is the strongest & ugliest one. They can be absolute bastards about the subject, in oh-so-many ways. The relationship in the workplace is much more heirarchical and less egalitarian. I would absolutely expect to see bullying based on status, with class at the front of the line.

The relationship between men and women is different. I prefer it over the PC Puritanism of the US, but it sometimes goes too far in the other direction for my tastes, especially where physical contact is concerned. Some teenage punk grabs one my daughters and she'll hand him his arm if I don't do it first. The younger generation in Chile, like elsewhere, has less in the way of manners and work ethic than their predecessors....given the different baseline in Chile, dealing with youths who deviate from that baseline can be jarring for foreigners.

John Hyre
thats sums it up!, :)

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Re: Bullying in the work place

Post by burt46 » Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:01 pm

JHyre wrote:You probably want to be more specific. Sometimes certain hyper-sensitive, politically-correct Americans & Europeans (and I'm not implying that you fit that description) mistake someone not toeing their personal political line as rude. When that's the case, I'd recommend getting a job in an American university, a nice safe cocoon full of similar narrow-minded, sanctimonious sorts. As is oft mentioned here, Chileans might gawk or comment based on race, but it is generally the product of curiosity, lack of exposure and/or a culture that does not have the racial baggage of, say, the US. Chileans will make frank comments about one's weight that in the US would be viewed as rude....though given rates of diabetes and heart disease in the US, perhaps a bit more social pressure and rudeness on that subject are called for.

Some of it is cultural and the opposite of rude. The pat on the bald dome is an example of that. My brother in law is a well-respected dentist with hair on the sides but not up top. He gets called "peladito" all the time, and even a little pat here & again. It's generally a sign of affection, he knows it, and goes along with it by adding a comment or quip, and always a smile. Caveat: See "class" below, who pats you matters and affects the reaction. Americans have the largest "personal space" of any other culture I've ever experienced, Chileans are much more physical where space and contact are concerned. And when in Chile....

Latins do have an overly strong sense of place and class....indeed of all their "isms", that is the strongest & ugliest one. They can be absolute bastards about the subject, in oh-so-many ways. The relationship in the workplace is much more heirarchical and less egalitarian. I would absolutely expect to see bullying based on status, with class at the front of the line.

The relationship between men and women is different. I prefer it over the PC Puritanism of the US, but it sometimes goes too far in the other direction for my tastes, especially where physical contact is concerned. Some teenage punk grabs one my daughters and she'll hand him his arm if I don't do it first. The younger generation in Chile, like elsewhere, has less in the way of manners and work ethic than their predecessors....given the different baseline in Chile, dealing with youths who deviate from that baseline can be jarring for foreigners.

John Hyre
Nice reply John, thanks. I guess what surprised me is how different the working environment is compared to the social environment. I've worked in other countries (outside Latin America mind) and never seen such a diverse difference between the two. My office here has a feel of a much strong competiveness between the men (too much testosterone) where some try to justify their ability and dominance. I understand the wage scales are much broader in Chile than other countries and perhaps this competiveness is amplified to try and close the gap between fellow employees.

I get called peladito and gringo all the time. This is nothing compared to other comments. One guy only ever called me gringo and after two years I asked him what my name was. He paused for a while to think and had problems pronouncing it (which was hilarious).

I agree with your comments of lack of exposure. This is notable with racial and sexist related comments (outside the office environment too) that just can’t be said in some countries. Yes its cultural differences.

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Re: Bullying in the work place

Post by Fugger » Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:18 pm

zer0nz wrote:
JHyre wrote:You probably want to be more specific....
.... dealing with youths who deviate from that baseline can be jarring for foreigners.

John Hyre
thats sums it up!, :)
Yes, it does. However, Chilean (Latin American) class consciousnesses and implicit racism (on this I disagree with your assessment) tends to be very nasty.

However, what we may perceive as rude and too direct can indeed be friendliness. Also as a piece of advise, egalitarian management styles and instruction are bound to be misunderstood. I have friends who had initially phrased their instructions like "I wonder whether you could do this and that?" and then were surprised that nothing happened.
1531 pacta sunt servanda

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Re: Bullying in the work place

Post by JHyre » Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:24 pm

Ah, Latin men in business. As I'm sure you've noticed, they are most emphatically not guided by an Anglo or European set of morays. For those of you contemplating doing business with Latins, most especially the men:

In the US and elsewhere, there is still a (declining) sense of shame for ripping people off. With many Latin men, ripping someone off would give rise to bragging rights based on a sense of machismo and strength, as in "Look what I did to the dumb gringo, I am a bad-ass, ha-ha-ha, that was easy money!" Insert major chest-thumping noises here. Be very, very aware of this tendency. And before the PC scolds (you know who you are) attribute things I did not say to me: This is a generalization, not all Latin men are that way. Over time, you will learn to spot the ones who are not. But in my experience, a great many Latin male businessmen ARE that way, and you'd best have a care when dealing with them.

John Hyre

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