The warmest people in Chile are Expats

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tombrad2
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Re: The warmest people in Chile are Expats

Post by tombrad2 » Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:36 am

I forgot there are also regional pride besides the national pride, It´s crazy! How people is unable to realize that Arica is the only decent place to live in Chile? :D

On productivity I stand firm in my point, I had worked in consulting many years and I am convinced on my point. See: in Chile you are paid in a "ass basis" that is how long you stand your ass in the chair in front of your desk, almost no firm pays you based on your productivity and those few who make it, use the system to underpay their employees putting unrealistic targets. I have seen this situation many times. Besides, as soon as you are definitively hired (contrato indefinido), your boss can not fire you no matter how bad you are without pay you a high "compensation" (higher the longer you had remain in the job)

There are lot of laws developed in the last 21 years to cut incentive to productivity and figures show a clear lowering in productivity during those years, there are perfect correlation, this is what local economist call "rigidity" of the Chilean labour system . There are many anecdotic stories to ilustrate that but I prefer to refer the many academic studies on productivity decline in the country, as this one http://www.seminarioscorma.cl/cont/pres ... 3_anos.pdf

"Cultural" explanations often ignores that productivity used to be higher in the 80s, with a different legal framework who encouraged to be productive
Arica in a nutshell (updated) at :
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greg~judy
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Re: The warmest people in Chile are Expats

Post by greg~judy » Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:37 am

tombrad2 wrote:I forgot there are also regional pride besides the national pride,
It´s crazy!
How people is unable to realize that Arica is the only decent place to live in Chile? :D
algunos pueden conocer la realidad última...!
otros nunca se sabe...?
así es la vida, tomas... muy loco!
no hay problema --- ¡Salud!
:alien:
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tombrad2
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Re: The warmest people in Chile are Expats

Post by tombrad2 » Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:42 am

Haha Saluti G&J and see you in Arica
Thanks for the pic of me driving my brand new vehicle :D
Arica in a nutshell (updated) at :
http://tomas-bradanovic.blogspot.com/

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tombrad2
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Re: The warmest people in Chile are Expats

Post by tombrad2 » Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:06 pm

Yes indeed, there are also a sort of "environment" who drive people to be nonproductive when some class struggle ideas are implicit or explicit applied during some time. When workers feels they are exploted and abused, they tend to be less productive and try to obtain the maximun earning with minimun effort, this also motivate bosses to abuse on the idea than workers are their natural enemies and any consession will turn into a legal entitlement. Chilean emigrants tend to be more productive in more motivating enviroment.
Same thing has happened in any real socialism, when they turn into crony capitalism, productivity grows and vice versa, I think there are a close correlation between productivity and incentives, much closer than with culture, race or other determinants.
Arica in a nutshell (updated) at :
http://tomas-bradanovic.blogspot.com/

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momof3
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Re: The warmest people in Chile are Expats

Post by momof3 » Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:19 pm

Momof3 diligently taking notes...
We agree to disagree.

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La_Tini
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Re: The warmest people in Chile are Expats

Post by La_Tini » Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:22 pm

What Chile substitutes is measures such as the Colonial-era "bonos" that come automatically at Fiestas Patrias and year-end, where everyone gets paid a little something whether they have been stellar performers or bozos.
That´s a curious theory, as in my home country, which has quite a good reputation considering its productivity level, people get sometimes as much as a second salary for a Christmas bonus, so those practices doesn´t exactly seem to have anything to do with colonial traditions nor do they apparently have negative consequences on productivity.

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Fugger
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Re: The warmest people in Chile are Expats

Post by Fugger » Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:16 pm

La_Tini wrote:
What Chile substitutes is measures such as the Colonial-era "bonos" that come automatically at Fiestas Patrias and year-end, where everyone gets paid a little something whether they have been stellar performers or bozos.
That´s a curious theory, as in my home country, which has quite a good reputation considering its productivity level, people get sometimes as much as a second salary for a Christmas bonus, so those practices doesn´t exactly seem to have anything to do with colonial traditions nor do they apparently have negative consequences on productivity.
So why do you think motivation and productivity in your home country (which I assume is my avatar's home country) is so much better than in Chile? Salaries are only a fraction of the story. On the case I followed (financial database content) salaries were about twice compared to Chile while productivity was about five-fold (and this being a service company where productivity is very easy to measure).
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tombrad2
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Re: The warmest people in Chile are Expats

Post by tombrad2 » Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:30 pm

It is complicated transfer experience between different countries, although I think that people is pretty much the same all over the world, this is my view having worked with lot of foreigners.

But the determinants of productivity are very complex and hard to identify, in the big numbers I think that legal framework is closely correlated with productivity but I must admit that is not an easy thing and also may be wrong, just my opinion.
Arica in a nutshell (updated) at :
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Re: The warmest people in Chile are Expats

Post by Afterburner » Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:09 am

On the general subject of the thread, some people never get past the second stage of culture shock as described below:
You will find that you severely dislike the culture and will experience intermittent feelings of anxiety and depression characterized by a demonstration of animosity, a short-temper, a strong sense of "being stuck," and a frequent tendency to criticize and mock the people and their culture. Depending on the individual, this stage can last for up to three to six months, or it may persist considerably longer for those who lack the capacity, faculties, and social support required to properly adjust.
<LINK REMOVED>

Stereotyping however results from cognitive pressures which exaggerate supposed differences among groups. It's linked to self-esteem in that "self-esteem depends partly on the properties of groups to which people belong; they can enhance their self-esteem by comparing out-groups unfavourably with the in-group." (Argyle, The Psychology of Interpersonal Behaviour pg 86)

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Re: The warmest people in Chile are Expats

Post by Afterburner » Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:14 pm

patagoniax wrote:
Afterburner wrote:On the general subject of the thread, some people never get past the second stage of culture shock as described below:
You will find that you severely dislike the culture and will experience intermittent feelings of anxiety and depression characterized by a demonstration of animosity, a short-temper, a strong sense of "being stuck," and a frequent tendency to criticize and mock the people and their culture. Depending on the individual, this stage can last for up to three to six months, or it may persist considerably longer for those who lack the capacity, faculties, and social support required to properly adjust.
<LINK REMOVED>

Stereotyping however results from cognitive pressures which exaggerate supposed differences among groups. It's linked to self-esteem in that "self-esteem depends partly on the properties of groups to which people belong; they can enhance their self-esteem by comparing out-groups unfavourably with the in-group." (Argyle, The Psychology of Interpersonal Behaviour pg 86)
Or it could be the holding up of an editorial mirror so that the players might better see themselves in their many self-admitted vices and foibles, a practice found even in their own nascent opinion-journalism industry. Or perhaps it is also the application of a form of humourous hyperbole that characterises a recognised and popular gonzo literary style, particularly when used by those who have spent a considerable number of years working amongst the natives, and their institutions and work-places, writing for their government and the foreign press, and reflecting long upon their comparatively quaint and wretched ways. This, after having lived happily and pleasantly in a number of somewhat more evolved and civilised nations with equally atrocious language and cultural conventions. Those observations, however acidic they may be perceived to be, serve a number of purposes, ranging from bemused revelation to agitated warning. Take for example The Daily Feature, which reflects upon rigourous field studies surrounding the astonishing inability of natalinos to competently park or shop at their local Unimarc, and who likewise characteristically fail to communicate effectively in any of the world's known languages.

O sea, podés tomar toda aquella seudopsicología y meterla donde no brilla el sol.
Yep, Michael Argyle is a well-known pseudopsychologist.

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Re: The warmest people in Chile are Expats

Post by momof3 » Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:49 am

In theory one gets over culture shock by the third year. One is supposed to feel like a tourist the first year, marveling at the novelty of the new culture. The second year one misses everything from his or her home culture and thus draws negative comparisons. By the third year one is supposed to come to terms with both aspects. I managed to skip phase one. By now I am realizing that phase one only happens if you hop in a jeep and drive south.
We agree to disagree.

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Re: The warmest people in Chile are Expats

Post by john » Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:18 am

patagoniax wrote:
momof3 wrote:In theory one gets over culture shock by the third year. One is supposed to feel like a tourist the first year, marveling at the novelty of the new culture. The second year one misses everything from his or her home culture and thus draws negative comparisons. By the third year one is supposed to come to terms with both aspects. I managed to skip phase one. By now I am realizing that phase one only happens if you hop in a jeep and drive south.
I lived in Spain and Mexico before I came to Chile in 1978, so there was no "shock." But also very little culture. In a newspaper interview with the Prensa Austral in that year I mentioned being favourably impressed with the country. Over the years I have gotten over that.
I lived in the 'Peoples Republic of California' (which begins north of the 605 Freeway and ends at the Mendocino county line) before I came to Chile in 2007, so no "shock" for me. But I'm still adjusting to the culture, which I find quaint. Sorry, I must have missed the second year syndrome. :?
One must care about a world one will not see.
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