The warmest people in Chile are Expats

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Afterburner
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Re: The warmest people in Chile are Expats

Post by Afterburner » Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:52 pm

john wrote:
patagoniax wrote:
Afterburner wrote:Munich is a great and beautiful city with a very low crime late.
Certainry aglee: vely row clime late.
You've been outed!!! :lol:
john wrote:
patagoniax wrote:
Afterburner wrote:Munich is a great and beautiful city with a very low crime late.
Certainry aglee: vely row clime late.
You've been outed!!! :lol:
Ah, Munich in the winter... the Christmas markets, Tollwood, ice-skating in the city, ex-pats and Germans giving about the red tape and bureaucracy, and the emerging "police state."

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tombrad2
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Re: The warmest people in Chile are Expats

Post by tombrad2 » Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:27 am

"Q: What is the best way to meet people here?
A: Ask for help. Many chileans are shy and afraid to play the fool, many fear to seem ridiculous speaking bad English, so the best way is that you take the initiative. Once you break the ice usually you will find warm and friendly people.

Q: The best way to become popular?
A: Is easy, just appeal to their national pride, just tell a Chilean how much you like a chilean meal, a chilean city, etc. and you will have it eating out of your hand. Use this little trick and you will treated like a prince, everywhere you go."

(from my F.A.Q. social interaction in Chile)

Of course the opossite works in opposite way: don´t ask for help and you can die waiting for someone offer it, "insult" the national pride telling your doubts on that Chile is the most wonderful place in the universe and you will turn into a social paria.

Chilean society has pros and cons as every other, if you don´t like it, just leave, it is not the right place for you, in a foreign country you always has to adapt and sacrifice some good old customs, the decision to stay is always a trade-off

On productivity of workers, I´m pretty sure that depend much more from current law mainframe than people, people is naturally lazy unless they are morons and if laws incentive the laziness (as has did in the past 21 years) productivity will fall, in Chile, Germany or everywhere, it is not up the people but laws
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Fugger
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Re: The warmest people in Chile are Expats

Post by Fugger » Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:00 am

tombrad2 wrote:Q: The best way to become popular?
A: Is easy, just appeal to their national pride, just tell a Chilean how much you like a chilean meal, a chilean city, etc. and you will have it eating out of your hand. Use this little trick and you will treated like a prince, everywhere you go."
Of course the opossite works in opposite way: don´t ask for help and you can die waiting for someone offer it, "insult" the national pride telling your doubts on that Chile is the most wonderful place in the universe and you will turn into a social paria.
Completely agree. Sometimes it is really astonishing how well this "pressing a button" approach works. Even it situations where it is totally obvious for everybody involved that the Chile flattering is factually wrong.
tombrad2 wrote:On productivity of workers, I´m pretty sure that depend much more from current law mainframe than people, people is naturally lazy unless they are morons and if laws incentive the laziness (as has did in the past 21 years) productivity will fall, in Chile, Germany or everywhere, it is not up the people but laws
Completely disagree. As Px pointed out, work processes take much longer here than in other places. I have previously shared the case which I experienced closely, where it was more efficient to transfer two dozen analyst positions from Chile to the US (Iowa) and Germany (Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania), despite salaries being somewhat higher. While in same cases low productivity may emanate from rules and regulations stipulated by the law, mostly either these rules are made up on the go, or workers / managers simply do not care.
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Re: The warmest people in Chile are Expats

Post by admin » Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:20 am

It is simple. If you are in Santiago talking to people from Santiago, you insult the rest of the country (i.e. exploit the 'campo rotos with plumas' attitude holding back the the country). If you are outside Santiago talking to people from outside Santiago, then you insult Santiago (i.e. pretty much anything bad about Santiago works). If you get that backwards or the person is from Santiago but outside Santiago at the time of the insult, they will just think you are an ass. If you get it right, they will invite you over dinner, sell you a nice piece of property, whatever. Generally works better outside Santiago, because whatever they have against foreigners it will never be as bad as what they have against Santiago.

Never underestimate what playing to people's prejudices will get you. This is just a classic city vs country / capital vs. rest of the country prejudice.
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Re: The warmest people in Chile are Expats

Post by Fugger » Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:48 am

admin wrote:It is simple. If you are in Santiago talking to people from Santiago, you insult the rest of the country (i.e. exploit the 'campo rotos with plumas' attitude holding back the the country). If you are outside Santiago talking to people from outside Santiago, then you insult Santiago (i.e. pretty much anything bad about Santiago works). If you get that backwards or the person is from Santiago but outside Santiago at the time of the insult, they will just think you are an ass. If you get it right, they will invite you over dinner, sell you a nice piece of property, whatever. Generally works better outside Santiago, because whatever they have against foreigners it will never be as bad as what they have against Santiago.

Never underestimate what playing to people's prejudices will get you. This is just a classic city vs country / capital vs. rest of the country prejudice.
That's one way of playing it. The other is more to the tune of "Chile has the best wine in the world", "Chile has such a beautiful flag" etc. Also when a Chilean says something negative about Chile, generally you are not supposed to reconfirm this too strongly, but maybe just remain silent.

Obviously playing the stereotypes should be limited to colleagues and acquaintances.
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tombrad2
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Re: The warmest people in Chile are Expats

Post by tombrad2 » Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:36 am

I forgot there are also regional pride besides the national pride, It´s crazy! How people is unable to realize that Arica is the only decent place to live in Chile? :D

On productivity I stand firm in my point, I had worked in consulting many years and I am convinced on my point. See: in Chile you are paid in a "ass basis" that is how long you stand your ass in the chair in front of your desk, almost no firm pays you based on your productivity and those few who make it, use the system to underpay their employees putting unrealistic targets. I have seen this situation many times. Besides, as soon as you are definitively hired (contrato indefinido), your boss can not fire you no matter how bad you are without pay you a high "compensation" (higher the longer you had remain in the job)

There are lot of laws developed in the last 21 years to cut incentive to productivity and figures show a clear lowering in productivity during those years, there are perfect correlation, this is what local economist call "rigidity" of the Chilean labour system . There are many anecdotic stories to ilustrate that but I prefer to refer the many academic studies on productivity decline in the country, as this one http://www.seminarioscorma.cl/cont/pres ... 3_anos.pdf

"Cultural" explanations often ignores that productivity used to be higher in the 80s, with a different legal framework who encouraged to be productive
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greg~judy
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Re: The warmest people in Chile are Expats

Post by greg~judy » Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:37 am

tombrad2 wrote:I forgot there are also regional pride besides the national pride,
It´s crazy!
How people is unable to realize that Arica is the only decent place to live in Chile? :D
algunos pueden conocer la realidad última...!
otros nunca se sabe...?
así es la vida, tomas... muy loco!
no hay problema --- ¡Salud!
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tombrad2
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Re: The warmest people in Chile are Expats

Post by tombrad2 » Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:42 am

Haha Saluti G&J and see you in Arica
Thanks for the pic of me driving my brand new vehicle :D
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Re: The warmest people in Chile are Expats

Post by tombrad2 » Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:06 pm

Yes indeed, there are also a sort of "environment" who drive people to be nonproductive when some class struggle ideas are implicit or explicit applied during some time. When workers feels they are exploted and abused, they tend to be less productive and try to obtain the maximun earning with minimun effort, this also motivate bosses to abuse on the idea than workers are their natural enemies and any consession will turn into a legal entitlement. Chilean emigrants tend to be more productive in more motivating enviroment.
Same thing has happened in any real socialism, when they turn into crony capitalism, productivity grows and vice versa, I think there are a close correlation between productivity and incentives, much closer than with culture, race or other determinants.
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Re: The warmest people in Chile are Expats

Post by momof3 » Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:19 pm

Momof3 diligently taking notes...
We agree to disagree.

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La_Tini
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Re: The warmest people in Chile are Expats

Post by La_Tini » Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:22 pm

What Chile substitutes is measures such as the Colonial-era "bonos" that come automatically at Fiestas Patrias and year-end, where everyone gets paid a little something whether they have been stellar performers or bozos.
That´s a curious theory, as in my home country, which has quite a good reputation considering its productivity level, people get sometimes as much as a second salary for a Christmas bonus, so those practices doesn´t exactly seem to have anything to do with colonial traditions nor do they apparently have negative consequences on productivity.

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Fugger
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Re: The warmest people in Chile are Expats

Post by Fugger » Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:16 pm

La_Tini wrote:
What Chile substitutes is measures such as the Colonial-era "bonos" that come automatically at Fiestas Patrias and year-end, where everyone gets paid a little something whether they have been stellar performers or bozos.
That´s a curious theory, as in my home country, which has quite a good reputation considering its productivity level, people get sometimes as much as a second salary for a Christmas bonus, so those practices doesn´t exactly seem to have anything to do with colonial traditions nor do they apparently have negative consequences on productivity.
So why do you think motivation and productivity in your home country (which I assume is my avatar's home country) is so much better than in Chile? Salaries are only a fraction of the story. On the case I followed (financial database content) salaries were about twice compared to Chile while productivity was about five-fold (and this being a service company where productivity is very easy to measure).
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