- Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
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- Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 7:16 pm
- Location: Austin, Texas Formerly NYC, NY
The right to vote also (also in my opinion) comes with an equal responsibility to vote.
The have nots are better organized and vote in higher percentages than the haves which is why the have nots are receiving what the haves have accumulated.
That is also why the U.S.A. will never have a flat tax or a VAT. For one half the population, April 15th is payday for not working. Why change that?
Hey if that was aimed at me then I can take the hint. Seriously, the thread topic and opening statement were totally about class. Silly me to think that they were inviting opinions. As for myself, I have been shying away from starting any threads and especially any political ones as I do agree with Admin's post from a while back. But seriously, sleep tight knowing that I was never here on a mission from Lenin looking to convert.eeuunikkeiexpat wrote:Quoted to reemphasize, especially to those who want to force this forum conceived and designed to support MAINLY FOREIGNER EXPATS into some kind of CHILE political-social-economic debate forum.admin wrote:... What foreigners need to understand is that they are not going to change it. In fact you are in another class all together. You are neither here nor there, and for the most part have the mobility to move between them with in certain limitations. Just do not expect the same of native Chileans born in to them, to view the class system the way you do. It might seem easy from a distance for people to do something about it, but you must remember they are looking at it from the inside out (same with your own culture in many things also).
I have seen foreigner after foreigner get themselves in big trouble, trying to some how inject their foreign sense of social justice in to personal and business relationships, and get their hand bit off in Chile. For example, the most common case is the foreigners trying to take employees and make them best friends. Guess what happens? The employee from the lower class more times than naught will read that as a sign of stupidity and weakness, and take full advantage of the dumb Gringo. The Gringo goes walking away thinking all Chileans are thieves or dishonest. Most of the time that is not so much the case, as they put gas on an old social fire and did not realize that the stove was hot before touching it. Employees and workers from the lower social classes have certain expectations, and very different life experiences, and most of the time unless a foreigner has been here for many, many, years will not be able to judge those motivations correctly. My advice has been and still is, to all foreigners, is stay the hell out of it. By a fluke of where you were born, you lack the cultural experience to play in that cultural pond. Not to say you can not, just it will take a long time and you will be surprised years later about how little you understand it, even when you think you do. In any case, you are not going to fix it or change it.
I do agree with Charles' post on class in Chile. Very ingrained and no expat will change that. Admin actually has a lot of insight into how Chile functions. However, when one reads the thread on tipping one can see that some are all too willing to encourage class jealousies by listening to a nana tell you that you can exploit the jardinero more than you currently do (and trust me, I know what a jardinero makes).
Anyways Eunikke U will be happy to know that I am out of here and you will once again have your homogeneous forum where you can spout off, call people Aholes for no reason, and chase out those of you who disagree with you.
To most of you, Have the time of your lives in Chile and try to remember some of the good things about your home country and try to make Chile a bit more like that.
Unlike you Eunikke (you would have made a great Pinochetista) I fully respect open dialoue with people of opposing viewpoints. Almost too much as I think I actually like Patagoniaxx. Sounds like a swell chap. Well actually there are a few others who have been kind enough to show encouragement via PM who I won't out.
If one thing makes me happy is the fact that some of the sentiments expressed here are not those of all expats in Chile (and not all the members on the forum).
Charles thanks for the valuable service you provide and all the best with your business.
If any of you ever find yourselves thinking like this chick, you might want to make sure that there are no Chileans present before sharing:
http://achiletale.blogspot.com/2007/08/ ... women.html
You all have a very Merry Christmas and all the best in 2011.
PS. And no need to worry about me coming back as a Josh.
That's pretty heavy.
Until recently, it would have been very difficult for me to understand how an institution like the Chilean police can dictate in matters private, to adults, in the face of the much mentioned development of the country lately.
However, after spending the last couple of years doing a lot of research on Chilean social justice, civic issues, etc. I have come to the conclusion that this development only benefits a small upper social class, while the majority still suffers its historical poverty and discrimination -a situation very similar to China's-
It seems that Chilean propaganda outlets like to present a rosy picture of the country's status to the outside world (again, like China), while things in reality have not changed much -they are either delusional or just over-optimistic-. The country is still a long way from joining the developed world.
Regardless, I think that the country's society and culture deserve closer scrutiny and study, specially paradoxes like its extreme nationalism, and Chileans' general belief in being ethnically European (demeaning and dismissing anything native, even their own obvious mixed ancestry).
Chile has a great potential to develop, but only when Chileans are ready to admit openly to their problems, accept positive critisism, and admit and accept what they are (in this matter, the Chinese are one step ahead -no Chinese ever portrays themselves as Westerner, not even those born in Western countries after many generations-).
My friend was complaining to me about the bureaucracy in Chile, and that one place does things one way, and another place does it a different way, and I was explaining to him that this is a positive thing.
In the USA where everything is exact and computerized and digitized and formulaic, there is no wriggle room. There is less human component; there is less room to game the system. One need only read the accounts here of people stopped for speeding in Chile, and compare them to what occurs when stopped in the US for the same offense, to figure out which country retains the human element, and which country is sterilizing and limiting everything that makes us individuals; essentially, free will.
What????? Chile has almost all of the above, with the exception perhaps of the no sitting on the grass thing because the stray dogs take care of that inclination for you, not sure about the fluoride in the water. Developing nation it is, but immune from modern day society, law and order and health regulations it is not.chilco wrote:Yes! No hair extensions, no acrylic nails,no tanning salons, no back-scatter machines, no license for your lemonade stands, no fluoride, no flu shots, no no sitting on the grass,no million restrictions that I loathe and don't remember at this moment. Patagonia, give me your freedoms, and make me feel small against the greatness of your nature.
- Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
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BUT when necessary, by way of ridicule and truth revelation we shalt do war.
At least for now.
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- Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
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What?! What?! Chilco no es de plastico? Thank heavens. With your your "grow your own attitude," gun references and willingness to sit in mud (at least I hope that's mud ), there might be a little Montana blood in those California capillaries of yours. I'm so proud! Were everyone one so grounded...chilco wrote:I don't doubt their existence in urban Chile. I'm not moving north, I'm moving south, where I can drink my own water, and sit on whatever grass pokes up through the mud, and grow vegetables without Monsanto telling me I can't.
At least for now.
I'm excited about the nalca; I love to make pies.
We're obviously planning on greenhouses; my next area of research will be seed availability. And snow, well, it's a beautiful thing. If I didn't like snow I would probably have to stay in Santa Monica. Or move to Bali, where my brother is.