Santiasco Air Quality a la Bei Jing..

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Santiasco Air Quality a la Bei Jing..

Post by HybridAmbassador » Mon Jun 22, 2015 1:18 pm

Odd~Even license plate days coming for the commuters.?
Heard from a friend just returning from Santiasco, Air quality deteriorating badly.

Extremely high level of air pollution in the Chilean capital of Santiago has forced authorities to declare a state of environmental emergency in the Santiago metropolitan area for Monday, the country’s environment ministry said in a statement. The emergency measures, which will force more than 900 industries to temporarily shut down and about 40 percent of the capital's 1.7 million cars off the roads, are the first since 1999, according to media reports.

http://www.ibtimes.com/santiago-smog-ch ... on-1976819
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Re: Santiasco Air Quality a la Bei Jing..

Post by admin » Mon Jun 22, 2015 1:38 pm

Mrs. B raised taxes on new more efficient cars, encouraging people to maintain their old pieces of junk longer. Would not want to raise taxes on all those guys paying off their buddies at revision technica to pass the smog test. Half of those old junk cars and trucks floating around, you don't need a high tech smog test to know they are illegal. You can see the black, oil laden exhaust pour out of their tail pipes while waiting in line at revision technica with the naked eye. I could likely measure the pollution with a plastic bottle and a bathroom scale. Yet, they drive off down the road. She would not want to tick them off, they vote for Mrs. B and her buddies without question.
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Re: Santiasco Air Quality a la Bei Jing..

Post by admin » Mon Jun 22, 2015 5:11 pm

I was curious, as I have lived in China how santiago could even be compared. Yea, Santiago is not even in the same ball park as beijing.

then stumbled across this site, for whatever it is worth:

http://aqicn.org/city/beijing/
300+
vs
190 top

http://aqicn.org/city/chile/cerro-navia/

perhaps more like nanjing:
http://aqicn.org/city/nanjing/
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Re: Santiasco Air Quality a la Bei Jing..

Post by El Chupacabra » Mon Jun 22, 2015 6:23 pm

Wow, I'm shocked to see the poor air quality in the southern Chilean cities as well.

Valdivia - 174 (unhealthy) http://aqicn.org/city/chile/valdivia/

Osorno - 160 (unhealthy) http://aqicn.org/city/chile/osorno/

Won't give me data for the other southern cities, not sure why. If anyone has another site that has the data please share.
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Re: Santiasco Air Quality a la Bei Jing..

Post by Space Cat » Mon Jun 22, 2015 11:22 pm

El Chupacabra wrote:Wow, I'm shocked to see the poor air quality in the southern Chilean cities as well.

Valdivia - 174 (unhealthy) http://aqicn.org/city/chile/valdivia/

Osorno - 160 (unhealthy) http://aqicn.org/city/chile/osorno/

Won't give me data for the other southern cities, not sure why. If anyone has another site that has the data please share.
We have -1ºC at night, so even rich neighborhoods burn their firewood like there's no tomorrow. Poor neighborhoods are living in smoke half of the year because their building insulation is non-existent.

Valdivia is more or less ok because air is clean when we have wind from ocean but I saw "preemergencia" levels in Osorno and Temuco this winter.

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Re: Santiasco Air Quality a la Bei Jing..

Post by john » Tue Jun 23, 2015 1:17 am

Would appreciate getting the perspective of forumites who live in Santiago.

Chile's largest city temporarily shut down due to smog 'emergency'
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/j ... -emergency
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Re: Santiasco Air Quality a la Bei Jing..

Post by StrawberryHeartsForever » Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:49 am

The closer you get to the mountains (ie east of the city) and in the main the richer parts, air quality isn´t that bad. It is the places more west, the poorer communities of Pudahuel, Cerro Navia etc that have awful air quality. I came to work on the micro yesterday due to the car restrictions, but I have seen many cars that were with restriction driving around and people playing ignorant. To be fair, if you can afford a big car or several cars at that, what is a 60,000 fine? not a lot. Also, the richer families have more than one car I am sure and can still go by car.

What is needed is a better public transport system that is for sure. The micro was jam packed yesterday at 5 when I returned home. Not even peak time. You can´t expect more people to get the public transport which has a shit service and is expensive (in comparison to wages). Micros with doors hanging off, holes in the floor etc. I know in places like Sao Paulo, it is a given that say number plates ending in 0 cannot travel on wednesdays. It is something that people get used to, having one designated day a week when they can work from home or go in by public transport. There is a long way to go here in Chile.

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Re: Santiasco Air Quality a la Bei Jing..

Post by admin » Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:57 am

yea, the not cracking down on wood burning in major urban areas of the south suffers from the same issues as the car problem. the left won't touch it, because that is their voter base. Santiago has a wood burning problem too. Santiago proper it is illegal, but it is not illegal just to the west of the city. Where do you think that smoke goes?

I have a humidity meter. I have quit using it on firewood they sell in the south. No point. I can tell by the weight that it contains more water than my meter will register (tops out at 50%).

Most of the homes in southern chile (at least Puerto Montt north) would get by, most of the year, with little to no wood burning if there was insulation in houses (including outlawing single pane and aluminium framed windows). lt really is not that harsh of environment (mostly all coastal). Negative temp days are a minority, and rarely all day. While we are at it, insulating hot water pipes would not be that hard either.

All that, and it would not be so bad to save a few trees. the forested areas near major urban areas are taking a major hit trying to keep up with the heating demand.

Don't have a thermometer outside, but it was below freezing at dawn in Frutillar. an hour after sun rise, it is heavy sweater weather now. might be t-shirt weather by this afternoon.

By the way, I might point out that the new no drop daylight savings time experiment, also is likely a major contributor to the to the pollution this year. Everyone goes active, way earlier.

Think about it. If you have to get up an hour earlier in the dark (more south, darker longer) to go to work or get the kids to school, while the temps are still around zero, your going to start that fire, stove, electric heater, or whatever earlier than you would on daylight savings time. Someone needs to crunch the numbers, but I am sure there is an increased energy and pollution use directly tied to that time change.
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Re: Santiasco Air Quality a la Bei Jing..

Post by admin » Tue Jun 23, 2015 10:06 am

you, know now that I think about it, the time change likely has a very direct effect on the pollution in Santiago. The problem with Santiago is the temp inversion layer against the mountains holding in the pollution. If everyone drives to work an hour earlier, starts cooking, heats their house, starts the factory (the real contributor), fires up the jet engine, and so on, the air temp of the inversion layer is colder, so the pollution is held down longer and lower. There is likely a loop created by the thermal layer of the pollution or something along those lines, causing it to stay lower and lower through-out the day as the pollution layer acts like insulation for the city.

Total armchair scientific hypothesis, but I don't think it would take much to prove it. Suspect the guys monitoring the pollution year on year, could take a quick glance at their historical numbers and see the difference fairly easily.
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Re: Santiasco Air Quality a la Bei Jing..

Post by ExpatBob » Tue Jun 23, 2015 2:25 pm

Yeah but then they are polluting half the year at a time when it's not going to stick around at all. 6 of one, half dozen of the other. DST is still stupid :)

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Re: Santiasco Air Quality a la Bei Jing..

Post by amanaplan » Tue Jun 23, 2015 3:44 pm

Some good points in this thread. What's been very noticeable in Stgo is that it hasn't rained this winter. Normally at this time of year the mountains have a pretty snow-line, this year they are bare like at the height of summer. The rain seems to play a big role in washing a lot of crap out of the air. Don't know if this is related to it being an El Niño year, or just a freak occurrence.

Regarding the revision tecnica, there does seem to be a large amount of corruption. We were having problems getting our car through it (not for gases, but for bullshit paper-work reasons related to it being 'liberado' from the zona franca in Iqq, and nobody at the first centres we tried knowing what the fuck they were talking about, para variar) and were quickly offered through an acquaintance of an acquaintance a 'fix' for 40 lucas to get it through, no questions asked. We politely declined and have since sorted it out legitimately, but the point is that if I had a car that was failing for gases, and was unscrupulous, it would be easy to get it passed for a small bribe.

This must be significantly undermining the attempts to control car emissions. Also a lot of people flouting the pre-emergencia restrictions, as has been pointed out.

These things are easy to solve, if there is the will. Start doing 'mystery shopper' checks at revision tecnica centres, and hitting them with a massive fine,or loss of licence, if they take bribes to pass gas emissions checks. If they impounded cars for two weeks when they were caught flouting the pre-emergencia restrictions a lot more people would think twice. A 60 luca fine with low risk of getting caught isn't much of a dis-incentive.

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Re: Santiasco Air Quality a la Bei Jing..

Post by ExpatBob » Tue Jun 23, 2015 4:01 pm

Another thing they do is just fast-track everyone through just to keep the line moving. The first time this year I took my car in, it was a slow day, and they found "problems" with it which were total BS. Second time through they didn't even check half of anyone's stuff, because it was really busy (looming April deadline) and everyone in standard fashion waited until the last minute. They were blowing everyone through there. They can make their 20 luka in 20 minutes or they can make it in 5. By April, they are making it in even less.

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