Onces

Gripes and complaints about Chile. What does not kill you, only makes you stronger. Help make Chile a better place, and help other gringos avoid problems and mistakes.
User avatar
marti
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 1309
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 7:28 pm
Location: Another project. Another country. And besides, the wench is dead.,

Onces

Post by marti » Wed Feb 11, 2015 6:59 pm

...
La mitad de eficaz. El doble de caro. El triple de complicado. Un país de cuarto.

Andres
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 2696
Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 3:09 am
Location: in transit

Re: Another scandal: Sweet deals for Bachelet family

Post by Andres » Wed Feb 11, 2015 7:31 pm

I'm surprised this is regarded as "news"; "unequal access" is SOP for Chile, and not just in regards to politicians.
Chile: My expectations are low. Very low.
I accept chaos. I'm not sure whether it accepts me.

User avatar
marti
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 1309
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 7:28 pm
Location: Another project. Another country. And besides, the wench is dead.,

Re: Another scandal: Sweet deals for Bachelet family

Post by marti » Wed Feb 11, 2015 7:57 pm

...
La mitad de eficaz. El doble de caro. El triple de complicado. Un país de cuarto.

User avatar
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 16819
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:02 pm
Location: Frutillar, Chile
Contact:

Re: Another scandal: Sweet deals for Bachelet family

Post by admin » Thu Feb 12, 2015 10:11 am

the 10 million dollar loan she got for her campaign from banco estado (state owned bank) strikes me as a way bigger conflict than this one for the family.

The problem with Chile is that is often hard to distinguish outright corruption, from simply a small economy / population with monopolistic necessities / tendencies.

By that I mean, the money and influence of this country moves in a very small circle, not so much out of choice, but because the circle is really small. There is just not that many people in the "movers and shakers" circle.

I don't even consider myself to be in that circle, but I have good friends and business associates that are friends with bachelet. Hell, my wife has met both Bachelet and Pinera. I likely got more than a few friends that know Luksic too, but never occurred to me to ask anyone if they know him. With a good reason, and a bit of lobbying, I could probably finagle a meeting with both of them. I really have no good reason to talk to either of them, but who knows perhaps someday I might. I have had dinner with plenty of politicians and bank presidents. It is not that big of trick. I never went actively seeking them out, just accidental invitations of friends of friends. More often than not, if you simply eat at the better restaurant in Chile regularly you will cross paths with them (I likely don't even recognize 90% of them, my wife is better at identifying them). I regularly run in to ministers, senators, and so on the air plane to Santiago. I think once or twice in my life I crossed paths with a national level politician in the United States, or the heads of fortune 500 companies, or whatever. Happens all the time in Chile. Chile is just a really small country.

The point is, the degrees of separation between people in Chile is likly less than three to four people, even among the unwashed masses. We are talking about a population equal to about a large city anywhere else in the World, Santiago is only 5 million people, the richer part of town a million or so. Count the business and political circles of the country (call it the, the los condes crowd or whatever), and you are down to less than a million (or even a 100,000 people in the real movers and shakers). In the upper end of the society the degrees of separation are at best one or two, and mostly zero.

As scandalous as it sounds to the international press, I totally would not read anything in to the idea that the president's family is able to get a meeting with anyone that might have sway over them getting a loan. I would be rather surprised if they did not have those contacts, even if by accident. Really, do you think for instance George Bush's immediate family has any problem getting a meeting with any bank president in the United States?

It is even stupider to think that every poor sap with a half baked idea on the street is going to get a special meeting about their $10 loan. This was $10 million dollar loan. I don't think that would be terribly strange for a high level bank executive to be involved in a decision to make such a loan.
Spencer Global Chile: Legal, relocation, and Investment assistance in Chile.
For more information visit: https://www.spencerglobal.com

From USA and outside Chile dial 1-917-727-5985 (U.S.), in Chile dial 65 2 42 1024 or by cell 747 97974.

User avatar
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 16819
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:02 pm
Location: Frutillar, Chile
Contact:

Re: Another scandal: Sweet deals for Bachelet family

Post by admin » Thu Feb 12, 2015 10:24 am

the other angel about this story that is just stupid, is the idea that somehow bachelet family had inside information about the rezoning of the property they bought.

Any idiot with a suit, that is semi-polite, can walk in to a planning department in Chile and strike up a conversation with the people there to get the gossip about what is being rezoned or just about any other information you want. We simply consider talking to the planning departments standard operating procedure when doing property purchases. It is not a state secret, and it does not take any special connections. We send secretaries and law students to do that type of work. hardly need to be the presidents family to get that sort of access.
Spencer Global Chile: Legal, relocation, and Investment assistance in Chile.
For more information visit: https://www.spencerglobal.com

From USA and outside Chile dial 1-917-727-5985 (U.S.), in Chile dial 65 2 42 1024 or by cell 747 97974.

SCL
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 188
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:18 pm

Re: Another scandal: Sweet deals for Bachelet family

Post by SCL » Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:30 pm

Correction: The loan in question was NOT from the national bank of Chile. Do not be misled by the name.

It was from a bank controlled by a private investor. Read La Tercera, a pretty important paper (circulation-wise) also owned by a private investor. La Tercera is pretty critical of the whole subject but it gives a fairly complete picture.

User avatar
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 16819
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:02 pm
Location: Frutillar, Chile
Contact:

Re: Another scandal: Sweet deals for Bachelet family

Post by admin » Thu Feb 12, 2015 7:58 pm

Yea the loan to the family was bank of chile. The loan to the bachelet campaign was banco estado.

The real scandal seems to be that bachelet's son had no personal assets or income sufficent to justify such a loan. Well seems he does now. Still private bank made a call to make private loan of questionable quality. Their skin on the line.
Spencer Global Chile: Legal, relocation, and Investment assistance in Chile.
For more information visit: https://www.spencerglobal.com

From USA and outside Chile dial 1-917-727-5985 (U.S.), in Chile dial 65 2 42 1024 or by cell 747 97974.

SCL
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 188
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:18 pm

Re: Another scandal: Sweet deals for Bachelet family

Post by SCL » Thu Feb 12, 2015 10:56 pm

The only thing I can think of that could be illegal --if such regs exist in Chile-- would be making a loan at an excessively high risk level, violating some type of loan standard. The officer making it would be violating the trust of the shareholders. But, again, I am not sure. Let's wait.

Donnybrook
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 3171
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 10:34 am
Location: Santiago, Chile

Re: Another scandal: Sweet deals for Bachelet family

Post by Donnybrook » Fri Feb 13, 2015 7:56 am

Whether any of it is illegal or not, it is certainly unseemly. It smacks of obvious privilege as no bank is going to lend that amount of money to anyone else with so little capital to back it up. Since Bachelet's major theme is about equality and leveling the playing field, it is a political nightmare for her government. I am assuming she knew nothing about it as any experienced politician would know that it was a time bomb. As Alejandro Guillier said, any son who saw he was creating such a problem for his mother, and who loved her, would resign. It will be interesting to see what happens.

User avatar
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 16819
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:02 pm
Location: Frutillar, Chile
Contact:

Re: Another scandal: Sweet deals for Bachelet family

Post by admin » Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:42 am

well, let's see if we can get an idea of what sort of money he should have needed.

I had a mortgage simulation run a few months ago, just out of curiosity about what I was eligible for. I seen a 60 million peso property I liked, and wanted to check mortgage options. We requested a 20 year mortgage. Of course there is all kinds of extra costs and fees attached, but just want to keep this simple.

I was told my wife and I would need to show about 3 million pesos a month in income. We would need to also put down around 10% of the mortgage ourselves. Believe those requirements are to get the best interest rates we could. Higher interest rates have lower requirements, but not by much.

So, just using that for some back of the napkin calculations, if I got my math right, Bachelet's son would have to show about $500,000 U.S. a month (250 million pesos) in income, and about 1 million U.S. dollars in down payment money.

Not bad for a sociology major that was described by one commenter on TV as "untalented".

yea, definitely does not look pretty for a socialist president.

how does that go? All pigs are equal, some pigs are more equal than others.
Spencer Global Chile: Legal, relocation, and Investment assistance in Chile.
For more information visit: https://www.spencerglobal.com

From USA and outside Chile dial 1-917-727-5985 (U.S.), in Chile dial 65 2 42 1024 or by cell 747 97974.

bobserb
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 127
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 10:30 am
Location: San Antonio

Re: Another scandal: Sweet deals for Bachelet family

Post by bobserb » Fri Feb 13, 2015 11:15 am

The main question is how much was a monthly payment and how it was expected to get paid?
My guess is that monthly payment would be at least 50 millions Pesos a month.

El Lechero
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 593
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:52 am
Contact:

Re: Another scandal: Sweet deals for Bachelet family

Post by El Lechero » Fri Feb 13, 2015 12:11 pm

Donnybrook wrote:Whether any of it is illegal or not, it is certainly unseemly. It smacks of obvious privilege as no bank is going to lend that amount of money to anyone else with so little capital to back it up. Since Bachelet's major theme is about equality and leveling the playing field, it is a political nightmare for her government. I am assuming she knew nothing about it as any experienced politician would know that it was a time bomb. As Alejandro Guillier said, any son who saw he was creating such a problem for his mother, and who loved her, would resign. It will be interesting to see what happens.
Yes no question he has to go, for her credibility. But he will just get some sweet job where he gets paid for doing nothing productive...oh wait thats what he is already doing. Yeah a case of everyones equal just some more so than others.

Post Reply