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Re: Immigration to Chile will be getting harder. Get ready!!

Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:03 am
by rachelmarama
People have been sleeping in the street in Antofagasta to get numbers for immigration and PDI for the last few years - i've been here 3 years and it's been like that since I have been here. I paid someone to queue for me for PDI last time I had to do anything there and she had to turn up at 3am (she got the first number). The problem in immigration is that there are only 4 or 5 staff and a couple of hundred people a day that show up.
I need to go and collect my permanent residency when I get back to Chile next week - with a 6 week old baby, it's not something I am looking forward to!

Re: Immigration to Chile will be getting harder. Get ready!!

Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:04 pm
by admin
Yea, it is not just the lines. The north has been a mess for generations.

There are whole mess of government policies, implemented administratively in the north, that are designed to keep the Peruvians, Bolivians, Colombians, and so on in check. For example, it is quite a fight with the IRS offices to get them to issue a temporary RUT number to a foreigner for such things as buying cars and so on. Another one that many forum members have experienced first hand in recent years, the reason gringos are running around with expired ID cards while they wait for immigration to process their paperwork was a direct result of the illegal neighbours buying and selling Chilean ID cards.

They could post more people in the north at the immigration offices (obviously it is needed). The problem is that immigration applications from the neighbours is starting to effect how the entire rest of the country functions for immigration. When the Puerto Montt immigration office can not get the Santiago immigration office to answer their own internal lines, something has got to give.

Here is the big problem we see coming down the line. We know there are new immigration laws in the pipe. We still have not seen anything like a final draft, but they are working on it. Good things is they asked us for our input to the drafting and continue to stay in touch with our contacts in the government about it. They seem to be taking special care to encourage small to medium size foreign investors, people that are retiring, and so on. The problem is the implementation of such a law, like all well intentioned laws, could have all kinds of strange consequences. Especially when you take in to consideration all sorts of modifications that can be done to a bill by the time it is implemented. We have already seen that attempts to limit visa fraud by nationals of the neighbouring countries, have turned in to a paperwork nightmare for everyone else.

The laws are a bureaucratic pain now, but still nothing like the States or Europe in terms of restrictions. If you have a visa situation that needs sorting out do it now. Better the devil you know, than the devil you don't know a year or two down the road.

My warning is geared towards the gringos that are doing the "someday I will get to fixing my visa" or "no worries, next year I will just apply again for another temporary residency", and so on. The people that are approaching Chile with the attitude that simply because they are a national of a developed country and Chile is a developing country, they will always be able to easily immigrate to Chile. For some, that might be true (e.g. retired with a bunch of easily documented monthly income).

My concern is it might not be true for everyone for very much longer. If you have an already marginal situation (e.g. backpacking English teachers floating around from one school to another on temp work visas, and part-time jobs), you might find yourself with no chair when the music stops. Because I doubt a whole lot of thought is going to be given by the powers that be to the distinction between an English teacher, rafting guide, tour guide, and so on working in the grey areas of the visa laws, and some poor Peruvian maid working in the grey areas of the visa law. They are violating the same law, in the same way.

Re: Immigration to Chile will be getting harder. Get ready!!

Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:23 pm
by admin
EE is right. I just had a thought about one of the big vectors that could make a whole lot of gringos' lives complicated, the tourist visa. Immigration or the PDI could suddenly pull the plug on the endless tredmill of 90 day tourist visa renewals. I can not even think of a reason they would need to even have a change of law. It could be done administratively. We all kind of take the indefinite number of tourist visa renewals for granted. In fact, we very rarely have a client come in to Chile and file for residency in their first 90 day visa.

Think about the sudden scramble there would be among foreigners to apply for residency, if that got restricted even a little bit. Say something even like only two consecutive renewals in a year, or you had to be out of the country for 72 hours (or they quit renewing at the boarder), or it got cut down to 30 days. I bet there are thousands of foreigners living more than a year in Chile on a tourist visa.

Re: Immigration to Chile will be getting harder. Get ready!!

Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:17 pm
by peregrine77
My wife and I will be relocating to Chile as soon as we can put it together at our end. This change will no doubt have some effect on our endless paper work and all that goes with it to become residents. To that I say fine, I will gladly go along with anything to keep the narco types out.

Re: Immigration to Chile will be getting harder. Get ready!!

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:55 am
by wardo1234
patagoniax wrote:
peregrine77 wrote:.... I will gladly go along with anything to keep the narco types out.
After all, look at how well the surrender of all civil rights and constitutional protections did for keeping the narco types out of the US.

I've always wondered why the proponents of the police state never seem to feel the need to show that it actually works. I'm not comparing the U.S. to Chile, but if they've ever been to a city like Baltimore they would see that the police state has been a complete failure.

Re: Immigration to Chile will be getting harder. Get ready!!

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:03 am
by zer0nz
isnt there arleady two thread dedicated to "states of the states" and "its offical USA police state" :)

Re: Immigration to Chile will be getting harder. Get ready!!

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:19 am
by admin
Yea, keep the U.S. politics over in the U.S. politics threads.

Even if Chile went off the rails tomorrow with a very active full blown policy to restrict all immigration, it would still be a years or decades for Chile to even start to catch the bureaucratic mess and infrastructure the EU and the States have created.

My wife had to leave the Netherlands and wait for her student visa to be processed for three months. When it was ready, even though we were just over the boarder in Beligum, they made her fly all the way back to Chile to get a stamp in her passport (we even made an appeal to the Dutch ambassador to Chile that was a friend of the family). By the time our student visas were fully approved, we were packing up to leave the Netherlands because we had completed both of our grad school programs.

Meanwhile, over 60% the population of the Hague was Muslim immigrants that came in under some type of asylum program. We paid something like 2,000 Euros in visa fees to the Dutch government, besides other costs such as my wife's flight back to Chile (like $1400 dollars), renting an apartment in another country in Europe for 3 months (like $6,000), and so on. We should have just filed for political asylum, and skipped the student visa. The Dutch goverment would have likely paid us while we waited and given us free housing as asylum seekers, and also cut a check for us to have as many kids as possible.

Re: Immigration to Chile will be getting harder. Get ready!!

Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:46 pm
by DrB
admin wrote:The Dutch goverment would have likely paid us while we waited and given us free housing as asylum seekers, and also cut a check for us to have as many kids as possible.
I'll be bringing 4 kids with me to Chile. (eventually) Any chance for a similar asylum and check for kids program in Chile? Sure would make the move a bit more financially feasible. :lol:

Re: Immigration to Chile will be getting harder. Get ready!!

Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:56 am
by ny_andino
Finally, a long-expected "nuevo" Ley de Migración y Extranjería has landed in Congreso Nacional yesterday. Here's the link to the project if anyone cares to read what's coming:
http://www.camara.cl/pley/pdfpley.aspx? ... INICIATIVA

In few words:

-it will require now min 2 years to obtain Permanencia Definitiva (1yr in case of family members of Chileans/holders of Perm/Def, investors or diplomats) and up to 4 years if one has antecedentes/infracciones/sanciones or lacks economic means of existence;

-to obtain Chilean nationality, one needs to have held Perm/Def for at least 3 years (not 5yrs since an initial residence permit as currently).

Re: Immigration to Chile will be getting harder. Get ready!!

Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:03 pm
by eeuunikkeiexpat
So Charles, what is your take on this (chances of passing and if passed, how long till in effect)?

Thanks for the news ny_andino.

Re: Immigration to Chile will be getting harder. Get ready!!

Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:07 pm
by wiscondinavian
I should probably get my butt in gear... off to the notary tomorrow!!!

Re: Immigration to Chile will be getting harder. Get ready!!

Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 1:02 pm
by snobrd4life
from page 21
- Nacionalidad: El proceso migratorio de un extranjero culmina con la nacionalización del inmigrante, que da cuenta de la incorporación plena del extranjero al país.
En virtud de este proyecto, podrá otorgarse a quienes hayan vivido 3 años como residentes definitivos. Esto mantiene el criterio vigente que exige 5 años de residencia continuada.
So the 5 year rule now means that the 2 years on temp and 3 years of PD are enough to apply for the citizenship as opposed to the 5 years of PD before?