Servidumbre de paso

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AAJ1
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Servidumbre de paso

Post by AAJ1 » Sun Apr 04, 2021 11:58 am

Hi - I'm going to try and keep this consise and post a longer message afterwards with background information for those with more time!

I have a parcela in the region of Aysen, bought in 2007, which has an old track passing through it - not marked on the plan or mentioned but it's also my access route.

There is also a second, shorter, section of track which the neighbour bought from the previous owner at the same time as buying her land but as a separate transaction a couple of years before I bought.

Anyway - I have no problem with sevidumbre de paso and the fact they and now others have have the right to pass and I can't, have no interest, in stopping them. For 10 plus years there was no problem.

Now the neighbour claims the section she bought as a servidumbre is her land not mine to do with as she wishes including stopping my access!!!
Also not letting me pass a water pipe, already installed and not affecting her access at all, below the track!!!

I get the general idea of servidumbres but am not clear on the details - is it likely that she is correct?

Does the servidumbre affect below the surface? How about in the air, e.g. if the tube can't be below ground could it be up in the air like electric cables pass over roads whilst it is higher than a certain height?

The two tracks start with 20m aprox the same - does one servidumbre outweigh the other? Which, the older one or the specific one?

In general where can you find information about specific details to do with servidumbres? SAG? Straight to a lawyer?

Sorry this turned out to be quite long! Thanks for any help and advice anyone can offer!

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hlf2888
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Re: Servidumbre de paso

Post by hlf2888 » Sun Apr 04, 2021 12:11 pm

Look at your escritura. It should describe the servidumbre and its benefits and limitations. If there is no servidumbre on your escritura, the vecina probably wants some money to create a servidumbre. It might be cheaper to pay her than pay a lawyer and hear the same thing. You could call it a dumb tax, payable by those dumb enough to buy a land-locked property without a guaranteed servidumbre. Let us know. Buena suerte.

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Re: Servidumbre de paso

Post by AAJ1 » Sun Apr 04, 2021 12:48 pm

The longer telenovela (throw in a few affairs and a comedy gauche character and I think it could be filmed, the scenic backdrop is good at least) background information to my previous post - read if you have time and want something different from covid the first post had the important information so skip this one if you don't! :D

I bought land in 2007 in the region of Aysen, two lots next to each other, 10 ha - luckily just before land prices started rising lots. For the first 10 years aprox I personally got along well with my neighbours although during this time I witnessed her deny vehicle access to another neighbour, an old man who has since died, to cross her land to get to his woodland. She also found out that another neighbour, living in Argentina, never registered his land properly with Bienes Raices and using a legal loophole took it from him. There are various other things as well - if I walk into town and somebody gives me a lift chances are that if we get onto the topic of where I live and who the neighbour is they have also had some problem with her without me saying anything!... vieja complicada is the common response!!!!

Anyway, things got sour maybe five years ago and progressively worse the first big drama was when I applied for derechas de agua to be safe and because someone offered to help. No interest in changing the usage of water or affecting her but keen to protect myself anyway she got really mad and cut off my water. The old pipe passed a bit through her land because it used to be one campo. Fair enough I didn't have servidumbre for the pipe but she gave me no warning. Pipe since rerouted and problem solved...

Next issue, there is an old track and a servidumbre de paso crossing my land (this bit explained in my previous post) anyway she now wants to blackmail / coerce me into giving her yet another servidumbre in a different part for free in exchange for her no cutting off my access and a water pipe passing below the track to two cabañas which I have rented out!

She wants the servidumbre to make easier access to a loteo 5 parcelas she wants to sell although she could also make a track through her land but it is slightly further and boggier if it weren't possible I may have considered some arrangement beneficial to both but I really do not want to be bullied by her...

Now I have the problem of knowing if legally she has a case, I can't believe she can cut my access of completely on land which is included as mine.. ??!

And physically what I can do to stop her - passing the water pipe high overhead like an electric cable? Drilling for subterranean water to supply the cabañas, I'm sure there is but the cost involved..
Rerouting the entrance tracks to my land...
It all seems a little ridiculous but I really don't want to let her win if I can help it!!!
She likes to install gates with padlocks which she gives keys to those who she has sold to further up... I am also considering installing various gates on the older track without padlocks not blocking the access but making things a little uncomfortable on snowy days in particular ( but I understand that this is getting to far past the level of stupidly petty however tempting to actually do!)

She also goes around in circles with the same conversation most of which is irrelevant - a gringo in lago x did y for example nothing to do with me. And has offered to physically fight me, saying she isn't scared because I'm bigger (way to far passed ridiculous for me to engage she is twice my age, and fierce) I'm not that stupid. I have explained that I have no interest in talking to her without other people around or going over the same topics repeatedly when it is obvious that it gets no where!

Anyway, well done if you got to the end of this sorry it got soooo long I guess I needed to vent...
Any suggestions, information, words of support or wisdom more than welcome!!!
I

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Re: Servidumbre de paso

Post by AAJ1 » Sun Apr 04, 2021 12:51 pm

:shock: Thanks hlf, the servidumbre definitely exists and letting her have continued access to her land isn't a problem what is is she wants to cut my access to my land, and a water pipe, off completely...

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RuneTheChookcha
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Re: Servidumbre de paso

Post by RuneTheChookcha » Sun Apr 04, 2021 2:33 pm

Unfortunately, this is not to offer any advice, but to share. I've been living for 5 years renting an apartment in a modern building, and there are 8 apartments on my floor The direct neighbour is also renter (Chilean) and is friendly, but next to him lives what he also describes as "muy complicada" lady, an exact copy of your "vieja", and with her I am having innumerable conflicts. Extremely aggressive and rude old lady. One example was writing a formal letter to the building administration on behalf of ALL neighbours on my floor (actually, none of which participated, verified) reporting "bad smells" from my apartment. I wont go into all the other cases -- too many to list -- but she is a very copy of your lady. The same genome, it seems.
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hlf2888
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Re: Servidumbre de paso

Post by hlf2888 » Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:57 pm

AAJ1 wrote:
Sun Apr 04, 2021 12:51 pm
:shock: Thanks hlf, the servidumbre definitely exists and letting her have continued access to her land isn't a problem what is is she wants to cut my access to my land, and a water pipe, off completely...
It sounds like you are passing through her land to get to yours... correct? Does the "track" go through her land? If so, probably best, in the long run to reroute and same with the pipes. She sounds like a vecina from hell. maybe she is only happy sowing discourse. Or she could be suffering from Alzheimers (personality changes). Peace of mind is priceless. I would reroute and avoid her totally.

ps, perhaps you are wondering if there is a law that protects land-locked parcels, giving them a legal vehicle access to the nearest public road. GREAT QUESTION. They have that in Canada.

Great telenovella.

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Re: Servidumbre de paso

Post by Rhodolite » Sun Apr 04, 2021 4:10 pm

Some people seem to exist for the joy of making other lives difficult. What an aggravation for you. One word solution: LAWYER. Not for this issue alone, but to explain thoroughly your rights and responsibilities with respect to the land AND to help you look forward with fore-warning of other issues you might not be aware of. Good luck! Neighbors can be the very devil.

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Re: Servidumbre de paso

Post by AAJ1 » Sun Apr 04, 2021 4:44 pm

Thanks for your responses! The tracks both pass through my land to get to hers - the shorter of which she has the papers for the servidumbre as a separate transaction to buying her land which therefore she claims means that that strip of land belongs to her and not just the right of free transit to pass through! Unfortunately as it starts at my gate it is also my access but it is physically possible but very ridiculous to build a second road next to the first to bypass those 10 or 20 m...

I think you are right Rhodolite about the lawyer being necessary, just hoping for some forum miracle whilst it is Sunday and not much more can be done!

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Re: Servidumbre de paso

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:35 pm

Regarding pesao nutso Chileans, I like the suggestion once by fraggle, don't have the time to search for the post but the suggestion of use of black magic markers IMO perhaps on their door or mat entrance or similar may tame them quickly.
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Re: Servidumbre de paso

Post by admin » Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:44 pm

Don't really have time now, but the short answer is you can not block someone from accessing their property, if they have no other way to access it.

now, the property owner does not have to provide the most convenient access. like you can't get a right of way through my living room, because it is the quickest way to your property.
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AAJ1
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Re: Servidumbre de paso

Post by AAJ1 » Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:39 pm

I like the black magic markers suggestion, actually not related to the neighbour one day I found the four horses here each had single strand woollen bracelets above their hooves! (Broke with light pressure so no danger of causing harm)

It turned out one of my tenants had put them on to ward off evil forces... She also has a sprig of, I think, rudo hanging by the door for the same reason! Maybe I will set her the task of warding off the neighbour :lol:

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Re: Servidumbre de paso

Post by AAJ1 » Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:00 pm

A quick update.... quite a productive Monday. I went early to Bienes Raices (advantage of the time change it was easy to be up and about super early) and was the first in. I got copies of the documents the neighbour has to do with the servidumbre.

With those, and copies of the relevant plans and paperwork I have for my land I went to SAG. There is a local area office and a regional one, the local one which was the first I past had a huge queue so I went to the other one which was completely empty.

Went in explaining that I needed information about Servidumbre de paso and got directed to the relevant person who was really helpful. I explained the situation, adding enough of the background so it was more interesting, and showed him the relevant documents. To which he explained that I am right what she has is the right to transit through the land only. There is the type she thinks she has but from the wording of all the paperwork and the plans what she has is the simple right to pass through. If she were the owner of the land my parcela would have had the area of that removed from it and would be in two separate lots one either side.

He said if she does anything then I should report it to caribineros and it is something for the Juzgado local but from all the documents she doesn't have a case.

I also asked out of interest, explaining that I am not planning on doing it, if I want to put gates every 10 m along the track I am legally able to and he says so long as there is no padlocks I can! I think the idea amused him! :-)

Anyway I will now wait and see her next move, probably on Sunday again! For the peaceful life I would like I hope that it will all simmer down and nothing further will happen. For the telenovela saga and drama it would be more interesting if it escalates... :twisted: :shock:

Anyway further information welcome...

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