Let us write a constitution for Chile.

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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by admin » Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:54 am

and yea, companies are not people. that is just a rediculas assertion.

there should be a complete prohibition on companies donating to politicians.
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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by Zenth » Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:29 am

Corporations have special interests. You wouldn’t expect a mining company to have the same land use ideas as an agricultural corporation and they each deserve a voice. Besides, a corp can have their directors or shareholders ( or even their employees) contribute its best interests so what’s the difference form where the money comes. It all originates with the corp.

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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by Zenth » Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:30 am

Corporations have special interests. You wouldn’t expect a mining company to have the same land use ideas as an agricultural corporation and they each deserve a voice. Besides, a corp can have their directors or shareholders ( or even their employees) contribute its best interests so what’s the difference form where the money comes. It all originates with the corp.

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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by admin » Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:57 am

here is an interesting article on the constitution of 1925 in this morning's local paper:

http://www.ellanquihue.cl/impresa/2019/ ... rtajes/16/

what was particularly eye catching, and something we often overlooked, as people holdup particular constitutions as "examples of great democratic instruments", is who consented to the constitution.

In 1925 less than 10% of the country was eligible to vote, because they could not read and write, or they were not landowners. I did not see mention of women voting either, but given the time suspect not.

but the thing to keep in mind, most constitutions, get hijacked by the political process and special interest.

The people clamoring for a new constitution, might not like the results even more than the current constitution; and many of the effects might be known for years. unintended consequences is my biggest fear in this process.

well, on a bright note, I seen a stat go by this week, that the most sold book in the country last month was the constitution. At least people are reading it; and it is not exactly the most eloquent page turner.
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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by admin » Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:19 am

mostly thinking outloud about what should to in to a constitution, given the nature of chile and what seems to have worked well in other places.

people are bitching, to a great degree, about their lack of say, or input into the government and how it is run. so, I was thinking this morning about what sort of mechanisms in constitutions have proven to put power and accountability in the hands of the people.

my thinking is, if sufficient power is left with the people, it also leaves them less excuses to go protest in the street about bla, bla...

strong, independent, judicial system:

I might be biased having grownup in the United states, but the common law system in the u.s. and other british traditions, has for the most part stood the test of time. I went over this earlier, but it should provide clear mechanism for people to defend their rights against the state. protection for minority rights, while maintaining majority rule.

ballot initiatives:

some sort of mechanism allowing for ballot initiatives for laws that people want, to over ride congress when they get stupid or lazy.

however, it should be a very slow, deliberate process, that only the most important initiatives get approved for even going to vote. really strong guard rails in other words, to stop mob rule.

likewise, and I am not aware of any country that has done this, a mechanism for laws passed by congress, to be vetoed by the people at the ballot box.

elected official pay:

I really like the idea of something like a base pay, and bonus based on economic growth, wages, inflation, etc. something that politicians are awarded, when they get it right and do their job. they don't prosper, unless the country prospers.
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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by admin » Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:37 am

guard rails on a ballot initiative:

I was thinking perhaps something like it has to be voted on twice, after a cooling off period.

for example, chile votes every two years. a law has to have a 50% or better to be excepted. wait two years, then it goes for another vote and needs something like 60 or 70% to be made law. It gives the country time to really debate the pros and cons. no crazy rushed brexit type votes.
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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by Zenth » Sun Nov 10, 2019 1:07 pm

Here’s the first problem. Why do you have to buy a copy of the constitution?

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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by bert.douglas » Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:42 pm

On ballot initiatives --

Last week there was an election in California and there were numerous initiatives on the ballot. A whole bunch of initiatives were approved that caused more money to be spent. The initiatives for broad and significant tax increases were rejected. There were a few local tax increases for school districts.

Everybody wants to get free stuff. Nobody wants to pay for it.

Unlimited borrowing leads ineluctably to disaster.

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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by bert.douglas » Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:51 pm

More topics to consider:

Central Bank. Should there even be a central bank? Should there be any limit to its powers?

Taxes. Should there be a maximum limit on the amount and type of taxes? Should there be an income tax, or only a VAT? How high can real estate taxes go?

Legislative privileges. Should legislators be exempted from laws on insider trading (as in the US)?

Term limits. Do we want legislators to stay in office forever?

Government borrowing. Any limit?

Growth of bureaucracy. How to limit? Perhaps as a percentage of population, or as percentage of budget.

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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by fraggle092 » Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:56 pm

Zenth wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 1:07 pm
Here’s the first problem. Why do you have to buy a copy of the constitution?
Why indeed, when its available for free online....
Bienvenidos a Chaqueteo City.

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tiagoabner
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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by tiagoabner » Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:31 pm

fraggle092 wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:56 pm
Zenth wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 1:07 pm
Here’s the first problem. Why do you have to buy a copy of the constitution?
Why indeed, when its available for free online....
The same reason people buy bibles, I guess. Some people prefer paper over digital.
I'm NOT your lawyer, accountant or financial planner. All information at this post should be considered for your entertainment only. Consult a professional before making a decision regarding whatever topic was mentioned in this post.

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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by Space Cat » Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:42 am

It's on!

UDI delayed it deep into the night (2:25am) by the demand to leave Pinochet's articles where new ones don't get approval. Everybody looks sleepy and exhausted but they are still able to construct boring political blah-blahs on camera.

The results are:
  • a new constitution from scratch during a renamed "Asamblea Constituyente", now it's "Convención Constitucional" lol
  • the plebiscite is in April
  • the citizens will vote if they want a new constitution at all
  • if yes, then what type: 100% elected citizens or 50/50 with congress representatives
  • the elections of the members of the convention are in October
  • one more plebiscite when it's written to approve the result
The signed resolution: https://twitter.com/galabra/status/1195 ... 22209?s=21

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