Temporary visa for financiers question

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eeuunikkeiexpat
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Re: Temporary visa for financiers question

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:12 am

eeuunikkeiexpat wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:52 am
did you get permanent residency via that route?
Search the forum for why the Investor Visa is a bad idea but it may serve the purpose if one does not plan on staying more than the one year term of the visa and has no plan on becoming a permanent resident unless they want to face the chances of starting from 0 again as a tourist in a year.

And I still stand by my observational wisdom that it is only when permanent residency is achieved that a business should be started inside Chile.
Generally, just a SPAM KILLER. You are on your own in this forum. My personal mission here is done.

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Space Cat
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Re: Temporary visa for financiers question

Post by Space Cat » Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:22 am

hoperto wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:03 am
i'm already though that it might be reasonable to give up on Chile and move to Portugal instead, if there is really just no visa suitable for us :D
If you don't mind: which route are you going to use for Portugal? I have a self-employed friend who'd like to move there but stuck in Poland because it's the only place in the EU that doesn't require a large startup capital or hiring locals for self-employed immigration.

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tiagoabner
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Re: Temporary visa for financiers question

Post by tiagoabner » Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:48 am

Space Cat wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:22 am
hoperto wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:03 am
i'm already though that it might be reasonable to give up on Chile and move to Portugal instead, if there is really just no visa suitable for us :D
If you don't mind: which route are you going to use for Portugal? I have a self-employed friend who'd like to move there but stuck in Poland because it's the only place in the EU that doesn't require a large startup capital or hiring locals for self-employed immigration.
This wasn't directed to me, but I do happen to be moving to Portugal soon. The visa your friend needs is a D2 visa. The business funds needed are those "reasonable and customary for the investment needed", usually around €5000 for a LLC/sole proprietor business (aka. freelancers, small business owners and the like). Unless he's planning to do something more complex, like hiring people, that's the visa he will be looking for. Visa fees are currently at about €1500~1700 when going through an immigration lawyer, or about €700~900 when doing things yourself.

By the way, this is all stuff that the nearest Portuguese embassy can help your friend with.

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Space Cat
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Re: Temporary visa for financiers question

Post by Space Cat » Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:26 pm

tiagoabner wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:48 am
This wasn't directed to me, but I do happen to be moving to Portugal soon. The visa your friend needs is a D2 visa. The business funds needed are those "reasonable and customary for the investment needed", usually around €5000 for a LLC/sole proprietor business (aka. freelancers, small business owners and the like). Unless he's planning to do something more complex, like hiring people, that's the visa he will be looking for. Visa fees are currently at about €1500~1700 when going through an immigration lawyer, or about €700~900 when doing things yourself.

By the way, this is all stuff that the nearest Portuguese embassy can help your friend with.
Thank you for the explanation – yes, there are similar visas in some other European countries but in practice they don't usually issue them to online entrepreneurs. Basically, it's the same problem as in Chile with the investor visa.

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Re: Temporary visa for financiers question

Post by n3b4 » Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:04 pm

eeuunikkeiexpat wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:12 am
eeuunikkeiexpat wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:52 am
did you get permanent residency via that route?
Search the forum for why the Investor Visa is a bad idea but it may serve the purpose if one does not plan on staying more than the one year term of the visa and has no plan on becoming a permanent resident unless they want to face the chances of starting from 0 again as a tourist in a year.

And I still stand by my observational wisdom that it is only when permanent residency is achieved that a business should be started inside Chile.
Could you please help me with that? What exact search words should I use to find any real cases? The few obvious ones that I use lead me to warnings that it is hard to get permanent residence with TE7, but nothing that I can consider as statistical proofs. On the other side, I met several people in Santiago who successfully achieved this goal. Of course this is nothing compared to many years of experience, yet I am only talking for what I've found so far.
I would appreciate any help.

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Re: Temporary visa for financiers question

Post by hoperto » Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:52 pm

Space Cat wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:22 am
hoperto wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:03 am
i'm already though that it might be reasonable to give up on Chile and move to Portugal instead, if there is really just no visa suitable for us :D
If you don't mind: which route are you going to use for Portugal? I have a self-employed friend who'd like to move there but stuck in Poland because it's the only place in the EU that doesn't require a large startup capital or hiring locals for self-employed immigration.
In my case - D7 visa. Note that I've initiated research into this direction just recently after i've seen that getting Chilean visas for our case might not be that easy. For this visa you need to have an annual income of around 10000+ eur or (confirming that) show that you have it or more on your bank account. I will confirm this info with the nearest Portuguese embassy on Monday. Haven't heard about D2 before, but seems like a valid option too.

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Re: Temporary visa for financiers question

Post by Space Cat » Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:20 am

hoperto wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:52 pm
In my case - D7 visa. Note that I've initiated research into this direction just recently after i've seen that getting Chilean visas for our case might not be that easy. For this visa you need to have an annual income of around 10000+ eur or (confirming that) show that you have it or more on your bank account. I will confirm this info with the nearest Portuguese embassy on Monday. Haven't heard about D2 before, but seems like a valid option too.
Nice, thanks for the tip. It sounds similar to Spanish "No lucrativa" visa where you need to save money to live from them for a year (around $30k for one person).

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Re: Temporary visa for financiers question

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:34 pm

n3b4 wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:04 pm
eeuunikkeiexpat wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:12 am
eeuunikkeiexpat wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:52 am
did you get permanent residency via that route?
Search the forum for why the Investor Visa is a bad idea but it may serve the purpose if one does not plan on staying more than the one year term of the visa and has no plan on becoming a permanent resident unless they want to face the chances of starting from 0 again as a tourist in a year.

And I still stand by my observational wisdom that it is only when permanent residency is achieved that a business should be started inside Chile.
Could you please help me with that? What exact search words should I use to find any real cases? The few obvious ones that I use lead me to warnings that it is hard to get permanent residence with TE7, but nothing that I can consider as statistical proofs. On the other side, I met several people in Santiago who successfully achieved this goal. Of course this is nothing compared to many years of experience, yet I am only talking for what I've found so far.
I would appreciate any help.
Visas are not science or controlled mathematical microeconomic theory as they are totally dependent on the judgement and competence of non-error-free government workers so statistics do not apply.

Basic admin's view: your visa progress is dependent on the analysis of some young 20-30 something bureaucrat with an 8the grade education or so.
My view: my observational experience matches admin's view. This is the visa that most developed world gringos get herded into if applied for outside of Chile who are not a pensioner or such and what happens is a lot is that these gringos do not follow through on their submitted intent or plan (as seen by some young 20-30 something bureaucrat with an 8the grade education or so) and lose the visa after the first year.

So is doesn't really matter what is in your head or the progress you feel you've accomplished when in the end it is all dependent on some young 20-30 something bureaucrat with an 8the grade education or so.

But if you do have a plan and plan to stick with it for that one year, by all means go for it. And please report back.

Again, as in most of my posts, the most important other point was ignored and not fully recognized.
Generally, just a SPAM KILLER. You are on your own in this forum. My personal mission here is done.

BUT when necessary, by way of ridicule and truth revelation we shalt do war.

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Re: Temporary visa for financiers question

Post by Space Cat » Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:18 pm

So I went and read practical experiences of moving to Portugal as a self-employed.

You need to arrive to the country, register a sole proprietorship on site, apply for a visa ("based on articles 88 and 89")and then stay illegally for 1.5-2 years because Portuguese immigration department is incredibly overloaded. They don't have a "visa application in process" residency status like we have here in Chile. So you can't leave the country all this time.

When you are finally called to an interview, you will need to show a working business and paid taxes, plus also pay a fine for staying illegally.Then maybe you'll be granted a visa. Of course, your business must be connected to Portugal, as in case of other European countries that allow self-employed immigration. Just moving money from abroad (as freelancers do) is not enough. But even this doesn't guarantee a success in getting visa.

And Portuguese embassies are not granting these visas in general.

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Re: Temporary visa for financiers question

Post by hoperto » Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:17 pm

2eeuunikkeiexpat
Indeed, if the immigration bureaucrats aren't very objective, it may be not that easy and the rejection rate might be significant. But you might forget that for example in my & similar situations (entrepreneurs / self-employed) this visa seems to be the only honest solution. At the moment i personally don't see other effective option (buying stocks just for a visa doesn't sounds reasonable) except the TE7 visa. I highly appreciate if you can advise on alternative.
Space Cat wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:18 pm
So I went and read practical experiences of moving to Portugal as a self-employed.
.....
Wow, that sounds quite messy. I assume staying illegally isn't the best idea cause it might restrict you a lot.
Probably it isn't the same for D7 visa. I will soon get in touch with the nearest Portugal embassy and figure this things out. According to my research it must be quite simple. But again, this is a different visa.

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Re: Temporary visa for financiers question

Post by Space Cat » Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:23 am

hoperto wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:17 pm
Wow, that sounds quite messy. I assume staying illegally isn't the best idea cause it might restrict you a lot.
Probably it isn't the same for D7 visa. I will soon get in touch with the nearest Portugal embassy and figure this things out. According to my research it must be quite simple. But again, this is a different visa.
Portuguese embassies don't issue these visas at least in the non-EU ex-USSR countries. Maybe you'll be more lucky if you are from a rich country.

There are huge communities of Russian-speaking immigrants to Portugal and from reading discussions there I got a perception that Portuguese immigration system is an unbelievable mess compared to the Chilean one. People even had troubles with getting D visas at embassies when they had work contracts with real Portuguese companies.

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Re: Temporary visa for financiers question

Post by tiagoabner » Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:08 am

Space Cat wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:18 pm
So I went and read practical experiences of moving to Portugal as a self-employed.

You need to arrive to the country, register a sole proprietorship on site, apply for a visa ("based on articles 88 and 89")and then stay illegally for 1.5-2 years because Portuguese immigration department is incredibly overloaded. They don't have a "visa application in process" residency status like we have here in Chile. So you can't leave the country all this time.

When you are finally called to an interview, you will need to show a working business and paid taxes, plus also pay a fine for staying illegally.Then maybe you'll be granted a visa. Of course, your business must be connected to Portugal, as in case of other European countries that allow self-employed immigration. Just moving money from abroad (as freelancers do) is not enough. But even this doesn't guarantee a success in getting visa.

And Portuguese embassies are not granting these visas in general.
You know, the problem with the approach you're describing is the "apply for the Visa after you arrive" part. Portugal isn't Chile. The D2 Visa is meant to be applied for at a Portuguese embassy outside of Portugal, as stated clearly at all Portuguese embassy websites.

Now, after you get your Visa, you will need to schedule an interview with the Foreigners and Borders Office to get your temporary residency. If you have the Visa before getting to Portugal, you will pay no fines, no matter how long it takes.

The long waiting times you have reported refer to Lisbon, and they are to be expected: most foreigners moving to Portugal somehow think that there are no other cities in the country, and as such the Lisbon offices are super cramped. That's also why Lisbon rental prices can get 4 to 5 times higher than at non-metro areas, and twice the prices from Porto.

As an anedoctal reference: it took me 40 days to get my D2 Visa approved. My business is 100% online, and all I had to do was to follow their application procedure to the letter. While I still haven't moved to Portugal, some friends have moved recently and it took way less than years for them to sort out their immigration status: a week for those at medium-size towns, such as Aveiro, and three months for the ones that moved to Porto.

I'll probably write a more detailed post about it I've I finish my immigration procedure. This far everything has been as expected, and I got the impression that the embassy staff was very helpful, as long as you had all the paperwork ready, per the requirements at by them.

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