chile's migration crisis

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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by admin » Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:35 pm

well, this crisis has not gone away.

https://www.caracaschronicles.com/2019/ ... the-south/

currently, and included in the new migration law pending in Congress, will allow for children to obtain residency, regardless of their parent or guardian legal status.

I support the idea. don't punish children for adult stupidity.

however, the practical use of it undermines various conventions chile is a party to for the protection of children. For example, the hague convention, etc. chile needs to get its act together now, or it risks inviting a different sort of humanitarian disaster.
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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by admin » Sun Sep 22, 2019 8:46 am

When asked about problems with migration authorities, or how they manage with the new restrictions to cross over to Peru or Chile, he says it’s about favors. “We have people all over the place. Clerks in Saime (the Venezuelan office in charge of passports and ID cards), agents in Venezuela, eyes and ears in Colombian migration, Ecuador migration and Peru migration. Chile is still the most complicated destination: you have to cross a desert with freaking mines buried. Their agents don’t ease up with money, either. We’ll have to raise the bar with that.”
the above is a quote from a coyote running venezuelans out of Colombia. Quite the endorsement of the effectiveness of chile's boarder controls.

https://www.caracaschronicles.com/2019/ ... -a-coyote/
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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by tiagoabner » Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:38 am

admin wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 8:46 am
When asked about problems with migration authorities, or how they manage with the new restrictions to cross over to Peru or Chile, he says it’s about favors. “We have people all over the place. Clerks in Saime (the Venezuelan office in charge of passports and ID cards), agents in Venezuela, eyes and ears in Colombian migration, Ecuador migration and Peru migration. Chile is still the most complicated destination: you have to cross a desert with freaking mines buried. Their agents don’t ease up with money, either. We’ll have to raise the bar with that.”
the above is a quote from a coyote running venezuelans out of Colombia. Quite the endorsement of the effectiveness of chile's boarder controls.

https://www.caracaschronicles.com/2019/ ... -a-coyote/
Given how slow Chile is regarding everything immigration-related, it's not surprising that they're corruption-resistant. If you can't rush stuff, it gives time for them to do due diligence between all the cafezitos they should be taking at work
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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by Space Cat » Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:37 am

I'm in doubt that legal immigration is faster in other LatAm countries. As an anecdote, I've heard complaints from a foreigner who lives here now but lived in Venezuela in the 90s that "it was much easier there because you could pay to speed things up".

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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by admin » Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:27 pm

I probably told this story before somewhere on the forum. it is an oldy, but a goody.

years ago, when i lived Guatemala, there was a "lawyer" that did all the visa stamps for foriegners. really it was the cousin of a "lawyer", working out of a window on the side of a house, that had a box full of "fake" government rubber stamps (including exit and entry stamps for the neighboring countries)

pretty much every gringo i knew in Guatemala went to them to keep their tourist visas "valid" in their passports. They even had pickup and drop off service to our office. I think l i knew two people in my whole time there had a valid work and residency permit from the government. one of my friends had been building and operating furniture factories for over 20 years, and was still on a tourist visa. those factories cost millions of dollars, and he was worth millions of dollars. not exactly a backpacker working under the table. he had to make a trip out of the country once, and we sent his passport to the "lawyer", that backdated the stamps for over two years.

so, I had one friend that had a truck from canada, and the only way to keep the paperwork up to date was they had to go the boarder every 3 months. he did not need to cross the border, just give his papers to another fixer that road a bike over to say el salvador while he had a beer at the bar. since he was at the boarder anyway, he had always renewed his tourist visa for real.

well, we were leaving Guatemala, heading north together. I went through Guatemala immigration first. no problem.

my friend, with the real tourist stamps, get's stopped. the immigration agent was certain his was fake. she, I guess, had never seen a gringo without the fake stamps from that one particular "lawyer". he ended up paying a small "fine" to "resolve" the problem. :lol:
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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by Space Cat » Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:14 pm

The non-existent "jus soli" scam exists in the Russian Internet too.

A friend of a friend got this ad (in Russian) on Facebook:
"You don't have to be a millionaire to give birth in perfect conditions and gift your child a Citizenship of a Developed Country, with a visa-free access to 157 countries around the world. It's just incredible!"

Well, incredible indeed.

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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by admin » Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:31 am

Space Cat wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:14 pm
The non-existent "jus soli" scam exists in the Russian Internet too.

A friend of a friend got this ad (in Russian) on Facebook:
"You don't have to be a millionaire to give birth in perfect conditions and gift your child a Citizenship of a Developed Country, with a visa-free access to 157 countries around the world. It's just incredible!"

Well, incredible indeed.
Yea, the scam is spreading, in both regions of the World and languages covered. I am getting inquiries now from Nigeria.
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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by admin » Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:16 am

well, the mass regularization of all the undocumented immigrants is starting to bear some fruit on the economic level.

https://www.latercera.com/pulso/noticia ... es/839161/

It will interesting to see what that looks like in 5 years as people get established.

In our experience, it typically takes a new migrant, no matter how much money and education they have to start, about five years to get settled.

It also will be the point where you see how many stay long-term.
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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by tiagoabner » Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:04 pm

There are some very interesting data points in the report. Venezuelans and Haitians are reporting their income now that a part of them is through the immigration saga. Venezuelans have more years of education, while Haitians are usually at the exempt level for income tax (statistically speaking, outliers do exist). It's also interesting that Brazilians took over the third place in terms of tax paid, a place that was previously held by Americans. This is most likely due to a large number of affluent Brazilians leaving the country in the last 3-4 years. This will most likely continue to increase as more of them start to pay taxes.
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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by admin » Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:47 am

It just baffles me how ignorant chileans are of how the immigration system works in practice in chile, right now, in the middle of this major public debate about the reform. I am not just talking about average chilean on the street. I am talking about the minister of the interior, "legal experts" from major universities, and "advocates" for immigrants.

This statistic sums it up, about the number of people requesting permanent vs. temporary residency in chile:

https://www.emol.com/noticias/Nacional/ ... Chile.html

no shit sherlock, you do a massive amnesty, handing out temporary residency, then guess what? after a year or so, all of them are eligible for permanent residency; and, they all come due at about the same time.

They don't understand that temporary residency is required to qualify for permanent residency.


After we went through a lobbying effort recently to get some changes in to the new law as it passed through the Senate, it was pretty obvious there was no real interest from any politician to really change the immigration law as it stands. They will of course staple some b.s. window dressing on to the current one, but the only real changes, if there is any, will be more beucratic disfunction.
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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by admin » Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:39 am

well, this "social unrest" sure put the breaks on the migration crisis. there was a negative flow of migrants out of chile in October.

https://www.latercera.com/nacional/noti ... re/923837/

what we are still trying to get ahold of is the stats on how many foriegners were ordered to leave the country by the courts and the department of immigration for involvement in the social unrest and looting.
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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by tiagoabner » Sat Dec 21, 2019 8:52 am

admin wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:47 am

no shit sherlock, you do a massive amnesty, handing out temporary residency, then guess what? after a year or so, all of them are eligible for permanent residency; and, they all come due at about the same time.

They don't understand that temporary residency is required to qualify for permanent residency.
There are currently time schedule websites for all steps of the process due to how packed immigration agencies are.

As an anecdote, I applied for my temporary residency visa on May and it was approved in November, almost exactly 6 months after the application date.

Then I needed to get a time to stamp the Visa on my passport. There are no times available and I was put on a wait list, and I ended up waiting 3 weeks to be able to stamp my passport.

That's not the end of the saga, though. I've requested a time to register my visa with PDI, and they also didn't have times available. It has been almost a month, and they still haven't assigned me a time. Hopefully they'll do it soon.

Even then, I won't be done, as I'll need to get my ID card. Come to think about it, this could all be done at a one-stop shop, where the immigrant did all of this shit at once. It's not like if any of these steps were optional anyway. But that's me thinking from an efficiency point of view.

I wonder if Chile started to offer expedited visa processing for a premium fee, and then used these resources to update their immigration infrastructure. Say, USD 1000 for a 2-weeks processing time and USD 5000 for 3-days processing time. They should be able to get at least USD 1 million per year, and probably much more. An efficient management team can use those funds to greatly improved their systems... But oh, this is Chile. Nevermind, then.
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