chile's migration crisis

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eeuunikkeiexpat
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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:20 am

One cultural difference between the average Chilean middle class to upper middle class family vs. many of the regional immigrants is noise level. Have already heard of many reports of how so many residential neighborhoods change when they pile into those usually smallish housing units. Music, parties, shouting, etc. that are at a level way above Chilean usually self-enforced norms. I've heard they have also changed the "neighborhood" in many higher middle class condos by desperate or greedy Chilean landlords as they rent to a regional immigrant pareja who then bring in four other people to split the rent. This has even occurred in the torre of the condo I live in within the past months.
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41southchile
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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by 41southchile » Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:46 am

I think there were some skilled Venezuelans at the start, but now its just the dregs that can't make it anywhere else and were too ignorant/blind to leave early when the writing was on the wall. Its the desperate of the desperate with nothing and often not educated.
I've talked to several other employers who couldn't speak highly enough of Venezuelans a year or 2 ago, now they say they are causing many problems in their workplaces and are not that great, now they have a contract they don't have to keep up the appearance of being great workers.
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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:48 am

Another issue i see developing is the growing aggressiveness of black immigrants in Santiago. Probably a resulting combo of real and perceived discrimination and attitudes combined with government policies that favor them and make them untouchable for any wrongdoing.

My working class roots family report that especially on the street, they will now often not yield as is normal courtesy when passing. My lefty step daughter who once supported the left's position on immigration was recently forcefully shoved out of the way by a passing black female probably due to her blond hair and light colored eyes.

Along with the increased noise and chaos in the lower hoods taken over like Lo Espejo are even more basurales and grime than before and there is seriously a rumor that those housing units filled with Haitians may be eating humans to survive so be careful when passing by <I kid you not>.
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41southchile
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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by 41southchile » Thu Oct 01, 2020 12:21 pm

fraggle092 wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 12:04 am


As already mentioned, this government's inaction on so many fronts may stem from fear of reprisals from international institutions like the UN.
Then, as has also been mentioned also, this government/president are weak and most politicians are not fit for purpose, i.e they are unable to run the country in a way thats best for the country as a whole, not certain self interested sectors,
but I guess that has been shown enough in the last 12 months.
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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by admin » Thu Oct 01, 2020 3:21 pm

So they passed the law through the senate.

It goes back to house for up or down vote.
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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by ghibli » Thu Oct 01, 2020 5:00 pm

I think one of the most unfortunate things about the way immigration to chile has been mis-managed - especially Bachelet - is that it leads to sweeping generalizations about nationalities. Examples, the venezuelans I've met have all been highly educated and very polite. They may represent the "first wave" but I don't have statistics on that. The haitians in my area are mostly peaceful types who end up with the unskilled jobs which chilenos don't actually perform very well. As to noise - yes, I've seen some ver noisy mexican parties, but the final reason I moved out of Santiago was that I was exhausted by the ongoing excessive noise in my apartment building. I lived in several in Providencia. The last was expensive in an expensive area. The noise never stopped and it was all chileno.

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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by ghibli » Thu Oct 01, 2020 5:51 pm

Continuing - to fraggle... yes there are other countries which allowed waves of mostly unregulated immigration - sweden for example, and it's been a disaster. I read that there are literally "no go" zones wherein native swedes, especially women, are not safe. I have not been following the chile congress debate blow for blow but I hope they will be careful. When I moved here many years ago and applied for residency, I felt
honored to receive it - and proud and obligated to try to put something back into the country. The venezuelans and colombians I know feel that way as well - but we all came here many years ago. I understand being poor, seeking an opportunity, needing to escape from horrible situations, and being angry that life is so, but that doesn't include the right to beat up on the country where you seek refuge. If the politicos don't have enough pride in their country to try to protect it they should seek work else where. OK I'm done.

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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by fraggle092 » Fri Oct 02, 2020 11:42 am

Yeah, in a sense Sweden is in a worse state than Chile due to the ethnic composition of those asylum immigrants who, rather than assimilate in the way envisaged by those 90's multiculturalists have imported their own disruptive values. Sweden made social commitments to those (formally-admitted) immigrants, and spends a lot of money on state welfare services for them.

But Chile doesn't have an immigration policy now, and since "multiculturalism" and "compassion" aren't outstanding virtues here, it allows this economic migration, immigration on the cheap, to happen with minimal state commitment.

As a result, many of these incomers al lote end up in cités, slums or in makeshift camps, breeding grounds for crime and disease, and are becoming part of a permanent underclass.
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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by ghibli » Fri Oct 02, 2020 12:53 pm

Yes. Well said. And this permanent underclass will be a huge drag on the many very sincere young people I meet who believe that studying and working hard will improve life for all in chile. Admittedly a good number of them are just in it for the bucks, but nevertheless, they represent chile's future. The parallel rich lives to which admin refers now and then will find that things get tougher when the tech systems don't work....viz banco estate which is still having problems last I checked. Which proves to me once again that being rich does not equate with being intelligent. How do they get their money? Exploiting the immigrants? So maybe the lack of policy is a feature, not a bug.

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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by 41southchile » Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:08 pm

ghibli wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 12:53 pm
Which proves to me once again that being rich does not equate with being intelligent.
Exactly right.
Some of the most ignorant/uniformed people I have met have been rich (financially). Poor in common sense, poor in general knowledge, poor in self awareness, you get the idea. They seem to think having money makes up for all their other shortcomings. I have also met intelligent rich people though too . I know it sounds judgmental but I don't know who annoys me more, stupid rich people or stupid poor, probably the stupid rich ones
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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by admin » Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:35 pm

Stupid rich, most likely for the lack of other excuses for why they are stupid.
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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:05 pm

Forrest Gump proved that being smart is not necessary to be rich :P
There are two ways to be fooled.

One is to believe what isn't true;

the other is to refuse to believe what is true.

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