Immigration controversy, 2016

Anything related to legal issues, immigration, problems, regulations, tax issues, or any other law or legal related problem in Chile. Moderated By A Chilean Attorney.

Moderator: Zvalenzuela

User avatar
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 21494
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:02 pm
Location: Frutillar, Chile
Contact:

Immigration controversy, 2016

Post by admin » Sat Dec 03, 2016 9:55 am

O.k., well this has been trickling in to the forum this last week or so, one post here, and one post there.

such as this
http://www.emol.com/noticias/Nacional/2 ... greso.html


So, the UDI, far right in Chile decided to pick a fight about immigration and crime. Think they thought Trump did o.k. with that issue, they might be able to replicated it.

Only problem is, they are bunch of morons.

The law, or all the points of the law they are proposing, already exist. Like not similar, exactly just like the current law. The only thing I found in what they proposed, tacked on to the bottom of the list, was to block people from immigrating that had evaded taxes where they come from. Which, I am not too concerned about, because I don't think it was stand-up to any sort of judicial challenge (long story). Other than that, nothing new. It is like an intern plagiarized the current law, so that their boss could have some talking points; but, the boss never bothered to double check their work.

My wife tweeted out to one heated conversation on the internet about the pros and cons of what they are proposing, "have you read the current law"?

Well, anyway that got the whole Chilean media circles all hot and bothered. I turned on the radio in my car exactly three times last week. Exactly three times there was a call in talk show, with people debating pros and cons of immigration and views of Chileans toward immigrants. basically, Chileans are o.k. overall with immigration. They mostly have issues with Colombians, Peruvians, and Bolivians, and they like immigrants from developed countries.

So, guess what?

Our supreme commandant Bachelet decided to jump on the band wagon too and announced that the rest of her administration will focus on sending an immigration reform law to congress.

She has the same problem however: she's a moron.

Even if she is not, she is not in charge of crap (and never has been). She could not get a law passed to call this country "Chile", let alone anything with meaning, even with mostly left leaning congress right now. She is politically radio active right now.

My wife was recently having drinks with some friends of hers that are working inside the government, and / or otherwise contracted to work with the government. a group of professionals that are totally lefty on the political spectrum. They were shocked at the chaos inside the government right now. They said, no one is in charge. It is totally lord of the flies in almost every government institution. Especially after the public sector strike.

More than just there is a lame duck president. There is a totally lame president. No one, for the protection of their own carrier future wants to make any decisions, nor be associated with any policies they might put forward. Especially after the last mayoral election, they see the writing on the wall, that if you want to stay in politics and have a chance at a job in the next administration, they will need to go right, or perhaps really far left, but don't get caught being friends with the current center left administration. The lower level career bureaucrats, the guys from the public sector that went on strike, either have no leadership or are completely pissed at the leadership.

In short, don't worry too much about the immigration thing. Nothing is going to happen before Bachelet leaves office, and this current congress is voted out. On the right, there has been a new reform sitting in congress since mid-administration of Pinera, that has gone nowhere. Thus, why the immigration law has not changed at all.

Back when we were called to a meeting with the Pinera administration for our input on reforming the immigration law, we told them there is no need for it. Everything they wanted to do with the law, was already in the law. All the problems are administrative and / or fuzzy interpretations / implementations of the current law. Don't mess with it, but fix the department of immigration's administration and training. For example, 3/4 of the delays, and thus the work load of the department of immigration, in processing applications is totally self-inflicted management level errors. Like people rejecting visas, without even opening and reading the application. Thus, kicking it back to the regional level, where it has to be resubmitted, just to have the same work done twice. There is no reason for it, other than shear laziness and inefficiency, along with lack of oversight.

However, in our experience, every administration tries to reform the department of immigration management to improve it, and typically just creates a mess that takes two to three years to settle down and people to work out all the kinks. My inclination is to say, don't mess with it. Good chance trying to fix it, will create more problems than it solves.
Spencer Global Chile: Legal, relocation, and Investment assistance in Chile.
For more information visit: https://www.spencerglobal.com

From USA and outside Chile dial 1-917-727-5985 (U.S.), in Chile dial 65 2 42 1024 or by cell 747 97974.

Donnybrook
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 3293
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 10:34 am
Location: Santiago, Chile

Re: Immigration controversy, 2016

Post by Donnybrook » Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:42 am

The only thing which I could see not covered by the various "tack ons" which have been added over the years, was a proposal to make people apply for visas in their country of origin rather than entering as a tourist and then applying for a different visa. However inefficient the local immigration authorities are, they are geniuses compared to the average Chilean consulate employee. On the other hand, consulate employees can't strike so it might work out in the end. What they could do is make the legal framework look less like a patchwork quilt and more like a list.

User avatar
Space Cat
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 1604
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:20 pm
Location: Valdivia

Re: Immigration controversy, 2016

Post by Space Cat » Sat Dec 03, 2016 1:31 pm

admin wrote:On the right, there has been a new reform sitting in congress since mid-administration of Pinera, that has gone nowhere. Thus, why the immigration law has not changed at all.
I read in the other place that this(?) law should fix the ambiguity around "5 years for citizenship" to make the long visas count. I hope it's true, faster citizenship is nice because they're processing its applications for 2 years as far as I know.

User avatar
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 21494
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:02 pm
Location: Frutillar, Chile
Contact:

Re: Immigration controversy, 2016

Post by admin » Sat Dec 03, 2016 11:36 pm

Space Cat wrote:
admin wrote:On the right, there has been a new reform sitting in congress since mid-administration of Pinera, that has gone nowhere. Thus, why the immigration law has not changed at all.
I read in the other place that this(?) law should fix the ambiguity around "5 years for citizenship" to make the long visas count. I hope it's true, faster citizenship is nice because they're processing its applications for 2 years as far as I know.
The big bottle neck in the citizenship application is that each one needs to be signed by the president. Which seems to happen only once or twice each administration.

Can you imagine donald trump personaly sitting down with a stack of citizenship application files and signing or rejecting each one?
Spencer Global Chile: Legal, relocation, and Investment assistance in Chile.
For more information visit: https://www.spencerglobal.com

From USA and outside Chile dial 1-917-727-5985 (U.S.), in Chile dial 65 2 42 1024 or by cell 747 97974.

MJSaywell
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 191
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2015 8:22 am

Re: Immigration controversy, 2016

Post by MJSaywell » Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:51 pm

The moron did manage to get Magallanes region to stay on summer time, because according to her it will "give them more daylight". So now there is going to be two different time zones in Chile. These sorts of things the government focuses on? its these actions and stupid comments that makes them look even more inept and rudderless than they already are. Maybe she should just lock herself in her office and spend the next 12 months signing citizenship applications

MJSaywell
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 191
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2015 8:22 am

Re: Immigration controversy, 2016

Post by MJSaywell » Sun Dec 04, 2016 1:49 pm

Gloria wrote:
MJSaywell wrote:The moron did manage to get Magallanes region to stay on summer time, because according to her it will "give them more daylight". So now there is going to be two different time zones in Chile. These sorts of things the government focuses on? its these actions and stupid comments that makes them look even more inept and rudderless than they already are. Maybe she should just lock herself in her office and spend the next 12 months signing citizenship applications
Wow! I often wonder how "regular everyday Joe's" would be able to run a household even less a country..... :roll: :idea: BUT they are ready to criticize others.
Wow! That makes no sense on any level. What does an everyday Joe's ability to run a household have to do with running a country? So a lack of domestic skills or any other skills prohibits an "average Joe" criticising the government. Wow! OK then.

MJSaywell
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 191
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2015 8:22 am

Re: Immigration controversy, 2016

Post by MJSaywell » Sun Dec 04, 2016 2:37 pm

Gloria wrote:You don't get it and that's what doesn't make any sense...... Great percentage of people (called "the average Joe") are not able to run their own household and would be even less capable to run an entire country but yet they love to criticize.
You are just repeating yourself now Gloria, no I don't get it and it's an argument that has always struck me as being somewhat strange and elitist or something. You seem to be saying that there is a great percentage of people who are not entitled to an opinion or to express their freedom to criticise a government just because in some fantasy world where they are elected president they wouldn't be able to do it because they can't run their own household.

User avatar
Space Cat
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 1604
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:20 pm
Location: Valdivia

Re: Immigration controversy, 2016

Post by Space Cat » Sun Dec 04, 2016 3:16 pm

You don't need to be a cook to feel bad taste of a cake.

User avatar
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 21494
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:02 pm
Location: Frutillar, Chile
Contact:

Re: Immigration controversy, 2016

Post by admin » Sun Dec 04, 2016 4:18 pm

actually, from the reports we are getting from our friends inside the current administration, Gloria is not far off from why they are unable to govern.

The Bachelet administration, after her complete train-wreck of the first year or two of her first administration, had a real problem attracting qualified people to join her administration. Every time she has gone through one of these reshuffling and replacement cycles of ministers in her government, less and less qualified people are wiling to join. Anyone with any experience or qualifications, knows it is a carrier killer.

So, what is a good socialist to do? She grabs some buddy of a buddy, with no experience or academic qualifications to fill posts. First she fills them with second tier people. Those get replaced by third tier. After two administrations of shuffling ministers, and those ministers replacing the people under them, she seems to be bottom fishing for anyone with a heartbeat to fill posts.

So, a lot of political lackeys, friend of a friend, the dog of the cousin of the friend of a friend's brother, are getting the posts in the government, with no real regard for their experience in doing the job or for that matter any job. She no longer has a line of say top economist sitting outside her office waiting for an interview, ready to give up their day job, just to have their carrier ended in a few months when the polls tell her it is time to reshuffle her cabinet again.

Her administration and the left in general, was never very good at getting qualified people with the experience and technical skills to actually complete the policies she wanted to push. Probably the jewel on the crown example of that was the tax reform / education reform. The bolt holes to attach that piece of legislation to the economy does not line up, and it does not really matter because no one bothered to buy any bolts to make it all hang together. In fact, that pretty much describes every single piece of legislation she has introduced since this administration started.
Spencer Global Chile: Legal, relocation, and Investment assistance in Chile.
For more information visit: https://www.spencerglobal.com

From USA and outside Chile dial 1-917-727-5985 (U.S.), in Chile dial 65 2 42 1024 or by cell 747 97974.

HybridAmbassador
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 3790
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:19 pm

Re: Immigration controversy, 2016

Post by HybridAmbassador » Sun Dec 04, 2016 5:22 pm

This poster's writing is very interesting. However, Chile need all sorts of immigrants coming in to Chilitolandia in order to fulfill the needed work force to develop its economy..

Chile no necesita discusion para entender la inmigracion, los legisladores son los que necesitan entender que Chile necesita inmigrantes que aporten competencias intelectuales, profesionales y personales que no existen en al pais, o que estan recien emergiendo. Inmigrantes que entren con contratos de trabajo verificables, empleo estable y los fondos necesarios como para sobrevivir a menos por un año en Chile en caso que el contrato de trabajo sea cancelado antes de ese periodo de tiempo. El pais no necesita mano de obra barata o trabajadores temporeros, y mucho menos gente que ingresa con visa de turista y simplemente se queda. Eventualment y por razones de trabajo, este ultimo grupo permanece en situacion de pobreza, y Chile no esta en condiciones de ofrecer vivienda, educacion y salud a una poblacion que crece sin control, Si 110 Haitianos entran a Chile a diario (Tele13 14 de Agosto de 2016) eso implica mas de 2000 individuos que la sociedad debe integrar cada mes. Esta preparado Chile para enfrentar este desafio?
HybridAmbassador. Toyota Hybrid system for helping climate change.

john
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 6130
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 1:11 am
Location: Viña del Mar, Chile

Re: Immigration controversy, 2016

Post by john » Sun Dec 04, 2016 6:18 pm

Uniformed opinions do not advance civil discourse. :wink:
One must care about a world one will not see.
--- Bertrand Russell

Andres
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 2706
Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 3:09 am
Location: Ex Chile; returned to Oz

Re: Immigration controversy, 2016

Post by Andres » Sun Dec 04, 2016 8:56 pm

john wrote:Uniformed opinions do not advance civil discourse. :wink:
Do you intend to follow your own advice?
Chile: My expectations are low. Very low.
I accept chaos. I'm not sure whether it accepts me.

Post Reply