The Trump Administration

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john
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Re: The Trump Administration

Postby john » Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:25 pm

Billhere wrote:Just picked up a piece on the BBC news where they were comparing fortunes of the USA and the UK as regards loss of manufacturing and jobs that started some years ago in the Reagan and Thatcher era.

They were interviewing a member of the pubic from Pennsylvania who was saying they had been promised mining jobs to dig out 'the best coal in the world'. He was saying he expected it to start within a hundred days of Trump taking office. The thing is he believed it, I hope he isn't disappointed, but I suspect he will be like millions of others and will be.


Bill, watched that BBC report too. Alas, frustration and anger are not conducive to rational thinking. Needlesstosay, those jobs are never coming back.
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DesertFlower
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Re: The Trump Administration

Postby DesertFlower » Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:19 pm

Final tally shows Trump lost popular vote by 2.8 million – but he BEAT Clinton by 3 million votes if California and New York are excluded. Clinton's popular vote lead only due to New York and California.

The founding fathers got it right. We don't need California and New York dictating to the rest of the USA. The system worked as designed.
“There is perhaps no better a demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world.”

Carl Sagan, 9 January 1995, describing the image of Earth taken by the Voyager 1 spacecraft 6 billion kilometres away

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DesertFlower
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Re: The Trump Administration

Postby DesertFlower » Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:27 pm

There were 7 faithless electors.
-5 were Democrats who didn't vote for Clinton (but didn't vote for Trump either)
-2 were Republicans who didn't vote for Trump (but didn't vote for Hillary either)

Of the 5 Democrats
-3 Voted for Colon Powel
-1 Voted for Bernie
-1 Voted for Faith Spotted Eagle

Of the 2 Republicans
-1 Voted for John Kasich
-1 Voted for Ron Paul
“There is perhaps no better a demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world.”

Carl Sagan, 9 January 1995, describing the image of Earth taken by the Voyager 1 spacecraft 6 billion kilometres away

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JHyre
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Re: The Trump Administration

Postby JHyre » Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:53 pm

DesertFlower:

The socialists (aka Democrats) do not care about the rules. They care about power. The ends justify the means with them.

For example, Congress was a very bad thing when it "obstructed" Obama, and executive orders were a very good thing when used to bypass a Republican Congress. How much you wanna bet that Congress will suddenly become a very good thing, obstruction will suddenly equal patriotism, and executive orders shall be deemed very bad?

John Hyre

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Re: The Trump Administration

Postby john » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:15 pm

DesertFlower wrote:Final tally shows Trump lost popular vote by 2.8 million – but he BEAT Clinton by 3 million votes if California and New York are excluded. Clinton's popular vote lead only due to New York and California.

The founding fathers got it right. We don't need California and New York dictating to the rest of the USA. The system worked as designed.


Let's put a few (inconvenient) facts into perspective:

- All members of the U.S. Senate and House of Representatives are elected by popular vote (as are Governors of states).
- California and New York (together) represent 18.4% of the total population of the United States (2015 estimate).
- California and New York (together) voters cast 13.7% of the popular vote in the 2016 presidential election.
- California has the #1 economy of the 50 states; New York has the #3 economy of the 50 states.
- California and New York economies comprised 21.7% of the U.S. GDP in 2015.
- Wyoming represents .00182% of the total population of the United States.
- Wyoming voters cast .00178% of the popular vote in the 2016 presidential election.
- Wyoming has the #49 economy of the 50 states.
- Wyoming's economy comprised .00002% of the U.S. GDP in 2015.
- California has more than 66 times the population of Wyoming.
- California has 55 Electoral college votes, Wyoming has 3 (18:1 ratio).
- Wyoming votes count 3.6 times as much as California's.

No, the founding fathers did not get it right -- the Electoral College is a vestige of Slavery.
There is no justification for denying a "one person, one vote" in presidential elections.
Yes, the system worked as designed, that is the problem. It is time to end the disenfranchisement of voters in presidential elections.

The Troubling Reason the Electoral College Exists
http://www.time.com/4558510/electoral-c ... y-slavery/
One must care about a world one will not see.
--- Bertrand Russell

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Re: The Trump Administration

Postby Andres » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:34 pm

john wrote:
DesertFlower wrote:
Let's put a few (inconvenient) facts into perspective:

- All members of the U.S. Senate and House of Representatives are elected by popular vote (as are Governors of states).
. . .

I reject your first assertion; which makes all the others irrelevant.

I reject the assertion that giving people two (or sometimes more) BAD choices implies someone has been "elected by popular vote".
I reject the assertion that ANY politician elected when there is no "none of the above" on the ballot has been "elected by popular vote" and has a mandate to do anything.
Chile: My expectations are low. Very low.
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Re: The Trump Administration

Postby HybridAmbassador » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:59 pm

Eight years ago Obama chanted " Make Change ". Trump says " Make it Great Again " Are these words have some similarity?
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Re: The Trump Administration

Postby HybridAmbassador » Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:07 pm

Clinton donors wants to investigate, how Hillary spent $1.5 billions in campaign donations >


Clinton’s fallout is interestingly causing an internal revolution among Hillary’s big donors. At her New York bash to “thank” her big donors of $1 million or more, she took no blame and pointed the finger at Comey and Putin. Her spin did not work and she has lost a lot of credibility according to confidential sources. They were smart enough to realize that even if Russia “hacked” the DNC and Podesta emails, there would be no release if there had been no wrongdoing to begin with.

Now Clinton’s biggest backers want a “campaign autopsy,” which could expose Clinton’s entire operation. The donors are demanding to know where Clinton spent the near $1.5 billion in campaign resources she collected in the closing months. They want the receipts. They are demanding an honest investigation of how Clinton failed to read the mood in swing states and how her Brooklyn operation misread polling data.

The donors are not buying the Russian hack story. Putin isn’t the only explanation for her failure and they are now pointing the finger at Hillary. She never bothered to go to Wisconsin. The story running behind the curtain is that fundraisers are cutting off all donations to the Democratic Party until this honest review is carried out. They do not want to hear about Comey and Putin.

Foreign governments have been cutting off funds to the Clinton Foundation. At last, the money is being cut off. Bill Clinton has lost it, mocking President-elect Donald Trump’s intelligence. “[Trump] doesn’t know much,” Bill Clinton said of Trump. “One thing he does know is how to get angry, white men to vote for him.” Bill is keeping it racist and gender oriented. Obviously, Bill is lashing out because the Clinton money machine came to a screeching halt.
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Re: The Trump Administration

Postby JHyre » Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:13 pm

Didn't take long for someone to toss out that the "Electoral College is racist (vestige of slavery)". Yup. Everything the Left disagrees with is racist, sexist or homophobic.

So Lefties, how'd your insults and identity politics work out this time around?

John Hyre

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Re: The Trump Administration

Postby john » Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:44 pm

Andres wrote:
john wrote:
DesertFlower wrote:
Let's put a few (inconvenient) facts into perspective:

- All members of the U.S. Senate and House of Representatives are elected by popular vote (as are Governors of states).
. . .

I reject your first assertion; which makes all the others irrelevant.

I reject the assertion that giving people two (or sometimes more) BAD choices implies someone has been "elected by popular vote".
I reject the assertion that ANY politician elected when there is no "none of the above" on the ballot has been "elected by popular vote" and has a mandate to do anything.


I reject your rejections. :)
One must care about a world one will not see.
--- Bertrand Russell

john
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Re: The Trump Administration

Postby john » Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:48 pm

JHyre wrote:Didn't take long for someone to toss out that the "Electoral College is racist (vestige of slavery)". Yup. Everything the Left disagrees with is racist, sexist or homophobic.

So Lefties, how'd your insults and identity politics work out this time around?

John Hyre


I stand by what I said about the Electoral College. My comments re: Electoral College have nothing whatsoever to do with current partisan politics.
One must care about a world one will not see.
--- Bertrand Russell

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DesertFlower
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Re: The Trump Administration

Postby DesertFlower » Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:13 pm

The Electoral College is a unique method for indirectly electing the president of the United States. It was established by Article II, Section 1, Clause 2 of the U.S. Constitution and modified by the 12th and 23rd Amendments.

The Electoral College consists of a total of 538 members, one for each U.S. senator and representative, and three additional electors representing the District of Columbia. Each state has a number of electoral votes equal to the combined total of its congressional delegation, and each state legislature is free to determine the method it will use to select its own electors.

Currently, all states select electors through a popular vote (although how that vote works can differ), but that was not always the case throughout American history. In many states, the state legislature selected electors, a practice which was common until the mid-1800s.

The Electoral College is about states rights. The push to bypass the electoral college is an attempt to bypass states rights--a further move towards federalism.

The US senate has two senators for each state, no matter how small the state is, while the representatives in the house are divided based on population. The electoral College is thus a mixture of the two systems. It keeps small states from having no say at all but allows larger states a greater say in the outcome. Its a good and fair system.

Without the electoral college, the USA would no longer be a representative republic. In other words, without it, we would have a completely different form of government.

The argument against the electoral college could also be used against the Senate which has 2 senators from each state. So California and New York each only get two. Places like Montana also get two. These are states after-all and deserve to be counted as equal partners in the union. Take that away and you get taxation without representation which was one of the major causes of the revolutionary war.

:D
“There is perhaps no better a demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world.”

Carl Sagan, 9 January 1995, describing the image of Earth taken by the Voyager 1 spacecraft 6 billion kilometres away


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