are charges for rental property damage based on "useful life"?

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thisisreallycomplicated
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are charges for rental property damage based on "useful life"?

Postby thisisreallycomplicated » Mon Feb 13, 2017 11:20 pm

Someday I'm going to move out of the house I've been renting, and I'm trying to figure out what I can expect to owe (if anything) for damages. I know how it works in the US, but I don't know about Chile. For example, if I completely destroy one of those cheap bathroom cabinets with a typical useful life of 15 years. And it's 10 years old. Do I need to pay the whole cost of a comparable new one? Or do I just need to pay 1/3 of the cost, since it has 5 years left of its 15 year expected life?
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Re: are charges for rental property damage based on "useful life"?

Postby David_Bro » Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:32 am

While I see your premise and direction let's just cut it off there and really what you should do is move out before you are turn in the apartment and take everything with you damaged or not and then what damage is there?----this is the traditional approach by the majority of Chileans----I would stop at chipping out the tub and pulling the copper wiring and maybe only the wall paper off one of the bathroom walls---honestly, this what most landlords are expecting so if you don't do it, you will be perceived as weak and they will take you for everything as it's their once in a life time chance-----am I kidding?-----well kinda and kinda not----

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Re: are charges for rental property damage based on "useful life"?

Postby thisisreallycomplicated » Tue Feb 14, 2017 1:00 am

David_Bro wrote:While I see your premise and direction let's just cut it off there and really what you should do is move out before you are turn in the apartment and take everything with you damaged or not and then what damage is there?----this is the traditional approach by the majority of Chileans----I would stop at chipping out the tub and pulling the copper wiring and maybe only the wall paper off one of the bathroom walls---honestly, this what most landlords are expecting so if you don't do it, you will be perceived as weak and they will take you for everything as it's their once in a life time chance-----am I kidding?-----well kinda and kinda not----

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Thanks, that helps. I'm really trying to figure out what the worst case could be legally. In the US I wouldn't owe anything, if I left it in this condition. It's really not in bad shape, just some minor damage here and there. I just don't know what to expect here. And I think my landlord will do exactly what you said, if he thinks I don't know any better.
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Re: are charges for rental property damage based on "useful life"?

Postby David_Bro » Tue Feb 14, 2017 1:32 am

Exactly.

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Re: are charges for rental property damage based on "useful life"?

Postby David_Bro » Tue Feb 14, 2017 1:48 am

Okay let me expand----traditionally the gringo, be it in the US or not, will respond to questions and bleed out all the information to what is asked of him or her---and then the course is set and whether or not you are responsible or not----so don't offer any information---don't respond except to say "its the same condition as I got it"----IN fact I would not respond at all. How would anyone prove the damage anyway? Are there photos and if there are when are they taken and did you sign off on each photo?----The landlord would have to prove it anyway and if you don't respond how can he prove anything?---Now there is the natural bias of a chilean, in a chilean court saying what Chilean's say, true or not, but then if you don't respond with anything, ultimately what is there to say about it? Would Chilean law take into account photos you took when you moved in as too what the actual condition of the property was at that time---think of it and all the signing off on everything that is required to prove anything? Or you can just get down on your knees, open your wallet and pay all the money so the property is 4 times as good as when you got it----which it won't be because the landlord will throw some paint on all of it and maybe not even that for the next tenant and call it good.

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Re: are charges for rental property damage based on "useful life"?

Postby thisisreallycomplicated » Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:30 am

David_Bro wrote:Okay let me expand----traditionally the gringo, be it in the US or not, will respond to questions and bleed out all the information to what is asked of him or her---and then the course is set and whether or not you are responsible or not----so don't offer any information---don't respond except to say "its the same condition as I got it"----IN fact I would not respond at all. How would anyone prove the damage anyway? Are there photos and if there are when are they taken and did you sign off on each photo?----The landlord would have to prove it anyway and if you don't respond how can he prove anything?---Now there is the natural bias of a chilean, in a chilean court saying what Chilean's say, true or not, but then if you don't respond with anything, ultimately what is there to say about it? Would Chilean law take into account photos you took when you moved in as too what the actual condition of the property was at that time---think of it and all the signing off on everything that is required to prove anything? Or you can just get down on your knees, open your wallet and pay all the money so the property is 4 times as good as when you got it----which it won't be because the landlord will throw some paint on all of it and maybe not even that for the next tenant and call it good.

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You're right, I just need to keep my mouth shut:) But I know how I am, so it would still help me to know if charges for damages are based on useful life. What I really need to understand, probably has nothing to do with that. And I think you get it. But at least I could stop assuming the worst, while I learn more about how things really work around here.
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Re: are charges for rental property damage based on "useful life"?

Postby admin » Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:30 am

normal wear and tear is expected.

There is generally a pretty low expectation of land lords and tenants in Chile.

Depending on the land lord, they may try to mess with you over the deposit or not. In a similar manner, a lot of land lords are super happy if you left the wiring in the wall, but took everything else, moved out in the middle of the night, and only stiffed them for a few months rent.

I have never had a land lord not give me my deposit back, but on the other hand I have also left all my rentals in far better shape than I found them. Like new floors, cabinets, paint, and so on. We also pay our rent on time.

My favorite was the land lord that as we were getting ready to hand the house back, and she had never been to the house (an agent handled the rental), came walking in the door just spewing a line of bullshit about deductions from the damage deposit, bla, bla, bla, and then stopped in mid-sentence. There was a million plus pesos of new flooring in the entire house, and installed correctly by myself and a friend that was a licensed contractor from California (i.e. no warps, proper tile transitions). She barely whispered the rest of the tour, for fear i would take the flooring out. Which she was right. Had she screwed with me, I would have taken the flooring out.

I tell them when I move in I am going to do some renovations, because I always do, and it will be better than what they have. I have never had a land lord have a problem with that. Typically once they see the first few improvements, get their first month rent on time, they are very supportive of anything I want to do the place. I don't expect much from landlords in Chile, but I do expect to be left alone to enjoy the property as I see fit.

The only time have had a mint condition apartment, house, or office in Chile, is when the property is completely new and never lived in. So, if you scratch something, break something, whatever, they are not going to fix it anyway. They are just going to rent it to the next person as is.

If it really bugs you, about 99% of the time, as you said, the cheap cabinets, flooring, whatever is still sold at sodimac or easy (like exactly the same product, very little selection in chile) and can be replaced pretty cheaply.
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Re: are charges for rental property damage based on "useful life"?

Postby jehturner » Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:51 am

I just split the cost of replacing a kitchen cabinet (that turned out to be a bit of a pain) ruined by a tap that had been left dripping 50/50 with the tenant, but that's just me. When I have rented here outside my employer's premises I have got all my deposit back on one occasion and none of it (without a clear reason) on another.

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Re: are charges for rental property damage based on "useful life"?

Postby Gloria » Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:03 am

admin wrote:
There was a million plus pesos of new flooring in the entire house, and installed correctly by myself and a friend that was a licensed contractor from California (i.e. no warps, proper tile transitions). She barely whispered the rest of the tour, for fear i would take the flooring out. Which she was right. Had she screwed with me, I would have taken the flooring out.


Wrong! You cannot take out flooring, tiles, walls, roof or anything that´s structural. You may be able to take with you the califont if you had to install a new one (receipt should be provided). You cannot take the bathtub or toilet out. You may take lamps that you installed and curtains you hanged. Use common sense if you don't want to get in trouble. It may be Chile with ignorant Chileans but don't take it for granted.....and they CAN take you to court regardless of what anyone else says.
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Re: are charges for rental property damage based on "useful life"?

Postby admin » Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:50 am

Gloria wrote:
admin wrote:
There was a million plus pesos of new flooring in the entire house, and installed correctly by myself and a friend that was a licensed contractor from California (i.e. no warps, proper tile transitions). She barely whispered the rest of the tour, for fear i would take the flooring out. Which she was right. Had she screwed with me, I would have taken the flooring out.


Wrong! You cannot take out the flooring out, the tile, the walls, the roof or anything that´s structural. You may be able to take with you the califont if you had to install a new one (receipt should be provided). You cannot take the bathtub or toilet out. You may take lamps that you installed and curtains you hanged. Use common sense if you don't want to get in trouble. It may be Chile with ignorant Chileans but don't take it for granted.....and they CAN take you to court regardless of what anyone else says.


That is just ridiculous.

yes, I can, and if they have a problem with it they are always welcome to spend millions of pesos and a year or two trying to take me to court over it. Especially when I AM THE OWNER OF THE FLOORING!!!!

If it is not part of the original rental. I paid for it. I have receipts for it. It is still very much my property.

But, there might be a clarification your not understanding. The original house had no flooring. It was just bare concrete, and was still in the exact same condition as when I moved in. It was not like I was replacing their flooring with something else. It was just a removable as my couch, toaster, or a throw-rug.

Now, on a practical level, I really had no use for the flooring. Not like most of the flooring in Chile can be reinstalled somewhere else.

By the way, we always take photos of our rentals when we move in, and escrow them at a notary, exactly to stop landlords from making silly claims.
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Re: are charges for rental property damage based on "useful life"?

Postby Gloria » Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:43 pm

admin wrote:
Gloria wrote:
admin wrote:
There was a million plus pesos of new flooring in the entire house, and installed correctly by myself and a friend that was a licensed contractor from California (i.e. no warps, proper tile transitions). She barely whispered the rest of the tour, for fear i would take the flooring out. Which she was right. Had she screwed with me, I would have taken the flooring out.


Wrong! You cannot take out the flooring out, the tile, the walls, the roof or anything that´s structural. You may be able to take with you the califont if you had to install a new one (receipt should be provided). You cannot take the bathtub or toilet out. You may take lamps that you installed and curtains you hanged. Use common sense if you don't want to get in trouble. It may be Chile with ignorant Chileans but don't take it for granted.....and they CAN take you to court regardless of what anyone else says.


That is just ridiculous.

yes, I can, and if they have a problem with it they are always welcome to spend millions of pesos and a year or two trying to take me to court over it. Especially when I AM THE OWNER OF THE FLOORING!!!!

If it is not part of the original rental. I paid for it. I have receipts for it. It is still very much my property.

But, there might be a clarification your not understanding. The original house had no flooring. It was just bare concrete, and was still in the exact same condition as when I moved in. It was not like I was replacing their flooring with something else. It was just a removable as my couch, toaster, or a throw-rug.


It may be ridiculous but that's the way it is Jack! Once you've cemented tiles or whatever on the floor, you're NOT longer the owner of that flooring and becomes part of the structure even if you have a receipts and they have been blessed by the Pope! If the original house didn't have flooring and you rented anyway....it's your problem. You may reach an agreement with the landlord but you cannot install flooring on any part of a rented house without a consent from the owner and if he/she refuses and you go right ahead and do it anyway.....you are out of luck. Floors are NOT REMOVABLE....carpets are! Take the time to look at the Civil Code.
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Re: are charges for rental property damage based on "useful life"?

Postby bert.douglas » Tue Feb 14, 2017 1:25 pm

Gloria wrote:.... Floors are NOT REMOVABLE....carpets are! Take the time to look at the Civil Code.

What about "floating floors" ? :-)


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