Chile Forum

Seems the Thorn Tree Chile (which I choose to read as "Thorn Free Chile") subforum is not very popular, but maybe a single thread about mistakes to avoid when you're arriving would be useful? Thanks in good part to this forum as well as local help, we're mostly hitting the ground running, but it could have been an even smoother process. I'll start with a couple of my own screw-ups, 4 days into our arrival:

- If you're using air freight, know what you're doing. if you don't, you can easily waste several hours. There's a useful thread here.

- Make sure not only to have several foreign credit or debit cards, but also investigate how fast you'll reach payment and withdrawal ceilings for the day/week/month. I have a Visa Premier debit card that turned out to have a lower ceiling than I thought. Now it's taking me a fax and at least 48 hours to sort it out with my bank. Also, you know these blank charge slips you do with car rentals? Well my bank tells me they contribute to reaching your ceiling until you've returned the car (again, even though there's no actual charge).

Just so I'm clear, I'm not talking about reaching your credit limit or emptying your current account (in case you're using a debit card). I'm talking about specific restrictions to how you can use your money while abroad. your mileage may vary depending on what bank you use and what kind of card you have. You also want to let your bank know you'll be using your card in Chile so they don't block that sudden burst of transactions in a far-away country.

- If you need to drive around, buy a good map in advance (I'm told Turistel maps are decent). I've been to two malls already in Vina del Mar, and the bookstores here are ridiculously small with little product selection. The book section in the Jumbo and Lider I went to are way smaller than what I'm used to in Europe, and I couldn't see any maps for sale there at all.

That's it for now but I'm sure I'll have stuff to add to that list in the weeks to come. That said, since we moved from France to Portugal a few years ago, we already had an expat experience which served as a dry run for the more daunting move to Chile. We're finding things are actually easier this time around, at least so far.

You guys have the floor. What do you wish you had done differently when you landed in Chile?

I'd have to say coordinating the notarization, the certification via the Chilean Consulate in San Fran, the translation in Sntgo. of all our documents was a real challenge - one more easily addressed before arriving.

This includes birth certificates and diplomas (not transcripts, no one ever asks for those) and any other legal documents you need to have legal force in Chile.

I also wish I had brought more Cheerios (small children at the time).

Hey, we might complain about Chile a bit on the forum, but I have to say how surprised I am at how little this Thorn Tree Chile thread has been used in the last year.

I thought for sure this would be the most popular area on the Chile forum when I posted it.

yea, notarization is something we constantly deal with in our business for clients outside the country, and inside. Here is the article my wife just wrote on the subject:
http://www.spencerglobal.com/chile-law- ... ney-2.html

This one mostly deals with Notarization related to real estate in Chile and powers of attorney, but if your notarized document stands up to the scrutiny needed to buy or sell a property in Chile, then it will likely be fine for other purposes.

If it is really important, get a qualified attorney to help you. We have seen a lot of errors made by the consulate outside of Chile. The people that work at the consulates may or may not be law school graduates, and chances are if they are doing some low level job like answering the phones they are not qualified to give you the legal advice you need. The quality of the legal advice coming from the various consulates and embassies of Chile around the World seems to be getting progressively worse.

The big issue is that Chile is not a party to the Hague convention on legalization. I will let the article give you the rest of the gory details.

In regards to credit cards and ATM cards in Chile, make sure you stock up on as many accounts as you can before you leave for Chile, if you plan to use them as your primary method of taking out money (highly recommended). Best to have a bank with a good online system that you can move money easily from one account to the other over the internet.

Be aware that in certain remote regions of Chile you will find only Master card, or only Visa card ATM's and machines. In very remote areas there will only be one per town.

In the rest of Chile, most grocery stores will have 10 at the entrance of every type.

Your big concern should with an ATM card with say a Visa or Master card symbol is that your daily limit will be around $200-400 depending on our bank, but it is set by Visa or Master card internationally and not your bank. Purchase limits are higher, but if you go out and say try to buy $2,000 worth of furniture you are going to trigger their theft controls.

I have so far only had two instances of my ATM card with visa on it not really working in Chile. Once a machine just took a disliking to my card and ate it for no reason, on a machine that I used all the time. Still no explanation. That was an E*trade bank account, and they paid me $50 for the inconvenience. Which was very nice, considering it was the first time in 8 years I ever had a problem with them and I do not think it was their fault.

I also know if I use my ATM card with a Visa symbol on it, and select checking rather than credit card, I can avoid some ATM fees. Also, be aware that some machines will not accept your card if you tell it that it is a checking card. If you get rejected the first time, try both credit card and checking card. Also, every ATM in Chile comes with an option of Spanish or English that I have used.

The other time was my fault. I went out and blew a bunch of money one afternoon on office furniture out of sink with my normal use patterns, and it kicked in their theft controls. I called Visa, and they took the foreign restriction off for Chile after I explained that I lived here.

I take that back.

I just remembered why the machine ate my card. I figured it out when talking to the account manager at the bank, and this is something to keep in mind if you are doing fast travel in Chile.

What happened was that I took out my max daily limit in Santiago just before getting on a bus. Then 8 hours later I took out another max limit withdrawal when I arrived in Temuco. Then I got on another bus to Puerto Montt. About 6 hours later I did it again. Just to top it off, I then got on an airplane to Chaiten for 45 mins and withdrew again my max limit. At that time there was no ATM in Futaleufu and so I was stocking up on cash.

Well, that was on a weekend and they all hit my account in the States for some reason within a few seconds of each other violating the laws of physics that say I can not be in three cities at one time, and setting off the theft controls. So, the next time I used the card it ate it.

This is an extreme example. We clock an easy 3,000 km or more a month in travel, and it has never happened again. Just something to keep in mind. You might want to rotate your cards a bit if you are really moving and withdrawing money as you go.

This might help a bit also. When notarizing and legalizing documents for Chile you need to take in to consideration your target audience.

For example, if it is a Power of Attorney (POA) for a property purchase, will the registry or the notary in Chile where you ultimately need it to be accepted, really accept it? They all have their own personalities and quirks, just like the consulates around the World. We have dealt with the San Fran consulate, and for the most part they seem to make less mistakes than most.

This is another reason to get legal help from an attorney that knows how to gauge the authorities that will ultimately give the document the thumbs up or thumbs down as far as being useful. For example, we have had notaries even after legalization with the foreign affairs ministry simply refuse to accept the document because of rather minor mistake when everything else was in order.

We as a standard policy have our clients fax or email us copies of the notarized documents (both sides) when sending them from outside the country, so that we can make sure they have all the proper signatures and stamps before they start their round the World trip because someone forgot to write some silly little scribble in the corner.

It all sound like a hassle, but on the other hand that bureaucracy of checks and balances keeps Chile from imploding like the rest of South America and Latin America in economic, legal, and political corruption.

Wow Charles,
I could almost substitute "Puerto Rico" for "Chile" in the article on Notarization. We use the same Notarial system which is based on Spanish law, even though we are part of the US. I have to explain this on a daily basis.
The US is the exception really, where a notary is just the lady at the corner store or a clerk at a bank.

Blame the French and Napoleon for this administrative overhead.

you got it right napoleanic law aqnd inheritece law !< NO EMAIL >$< NO EMAIL >!< NO EMAIL >%^&**!!!

I believe it is more of Roman tradition the seal of Cezar, the crown, and all of that. All subjects of the king.

Actually I would like to know if the inhertence laws, are based on Napoleanic law. It is really important for any one buying property in any area to know about those kinds of laws. I did a search to see if that has been touched on before and came up blank. There are situations here where we have had as many as 60 people come sign a deed because of "Herencia" issues. Does a spouse, inherit automatically? do the children?

I can speak to that - I just finished a land purchase that did involve extensive herencia issues - about 26 people involved in signing or providing notarized power of attorney for it.

>Does a spouse, inherit automatically? do the children?

Spouse gets half, children get half equally divided, male children sign, female children of the union (where one parent is now deceased) must sign and have their husband's also provide a power of atty or sign to indicate agreement/authorization. Husband's are entitled to part of their wives herencia.

yea, this is something that needs to be sorted out as part of the title search very carefully.

There is a statute of limitation on it, but still it can be a real paperwork mess to cleanup properly.

An article on it is on our todo list.

Interesting you have a statute of limitations.

It isn't just the title search it is also important to understand what will happen to your property when you pass. Sometimes it is no problem at all but it can be sticky when there are children from prior relationships.

Can the surviving spouse sell without the childrens signature or can the children force the survivor to sell?

Can the surviving spouse sell without the childrens signature

No, according to our lawyers when we did it

or can the children force the survivor to sell?

Maybe, not sure if they can force w/o a competency hearing finding the parent cannot manage their own affairs. While the surviving parent is functioning I believe they call the shots - the kids have to wait.

Yes Charles
we need an article, this stuff is important and is a huge issue here. Children have a real sense of entitlement here because they can not be diinherited. I don't want to extrapolate what I know here to what happens there. But would like to know. We suggest here that buyers really understaan this issue, talk with a lawyer and often they decide to form an LLC to deal with inheritence issues. Napoleanic laws can not necessarily be bypassed with a will and you need to know that. here if there are no kids, parents inherit, no parents, then the siblings , then nieces ande nephews etc.ad infinitum which can mean a spouse is dealing with someone inheriting 25% who is a very distant relative receiving a windfall. happens all the time!