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A Chile Forum Dispute

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A Chile Forum Dispute

Postby admin on Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:50 pm

First the background for those just joining.

Over on this thread we had a link problem, which I took as spam but it was from user with a good deal of postings:

you can get caught up on this here:
http://www.allchile.net/chileforum//viewtopic.php?t=949
and the linking policy here:
http://www.allchile.net/chileforum//viewtopic.php?t=724

Well since then me and otravers have exchanged some private messages on the issue, and I am convinced he is not a spammer. We just has a miscommunication regarding the nature of our linking policy on the forum.

In the fight against spam, this is bound to happen every once in a while. Luckily it seems to only happen about once every 6 months or so.

About 99.9% of spammers never even make it in to the forum because of automated guards.

The other 0.1% tend to be the most time consuming and the most trouble to sort out. Typically they are some low paid worker from Asia who speaks just sufficient English to get by the spam filters for new users. They make a few random post that are just sufficiently coherent to make a few postings and then they stick in a spam link for say a phone or something.

Here is one example of such a conversation:
http://www.allchile.net/chileforum//viewtopic.php?t=832

So, they do get by once in a while.

Well, otravers I know is in the online marketing biz, and had posted a stock link with key terms in it. One of the more valuable type of links on the internet.

This is forbidden on the forum, because it is exactly why spammers spam. It increases search engine ranking of other websites when we add links out to them with key terms in it. What are generally refered to as SEO links.

After talking to him about it though, I am convinced that he just did it out of habit. I do it too on the web.

Any way the link set off the spam detector in my head, and I was perhaps a bit harsh with him. My apologies to otravers regarding this matter.

One reason I am so nasty with spammers is because early on in the forum life, back in about Dec of 2006, the forum was nearly knocked off the web from spammers. The old timers, will remember that for every post there was a 100 spam postings in each thread. Members started threating to leave because they could not make any real posts.

Well I have gotten that under control, and now we deal with about 1 spammer a week.
Last edited by admin on Mon Aug 27, 2007 1:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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policy

Postby admin on Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:58 pm

I would also just like to extend a general invitation to anyone that feels I have acted unfairly in this case, or any other case to please to speak up in here, ask questions, or add their comments.

If I should ever get a little too trigger happy or heavy handed on any sort of administration issue, also feel free to PM me. If we can not settle it in a PM conversation and the situation warrants it, I would be happy to open up a public thread like this and we can discuss it with the other members.
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Postby murf on Mon Aug 27, 2007 1:29 pm

Personally I see both sides of this issue,(I found the link rather helpfull and had saved it before you removed it)
However maby "a little trigger happy" might be a good thing given all the spam c%#p out there but perhaps next time take linky down temporarly till spam issue can be verified by Pm etc.
Just my 0.02cents
Either way I find this site very helpfull and I'm sure the "wrinkels" will iorn themselfs out. After all it's only been only a year (almost) in existance.
Good luck with it..............
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Postby otravers on Mon Aug 27, 2007 1:33 pm

Thank you very much Charles for looking into this openly and sorting things out publicly. Your apology is welcome but I knew your intent, and your heart is in the right place in protecting this community you built here. This little incident is settled for me and I appreciate you cleared my name. We deal with spam on our sites ourselves and it's an incredible nuisance. It's so bad comments are broken on my personal blog because of a constant barrage of automated spam, and I haven't had the time to upgrade my blog software with better spam filters.

Just a suggestion next time you're in doubt: you may turn the hotlink off but leave it as text, so it has no SEO value but the text can be copied by other members, provided the link is indeed relevant of course. Just a thought.

I think it would be useful to make sure we're all on the same page in terms of how to link to what, not only on the forum but also on the wiki. For people who don't follow the internet's inside baseball closely, it recently surfaced that employees in big companies and governments have been stealthily editing Wikipedia (which I'm sure everyone knows) to portray their organizations in a better light. Tactics known as "astroturfing" (pretending you're grassroots) are sadly too common, so Charles is not just paranoid here, because there are really people out there to get us (i.e. online communities from blogs to forums to wikis)!

I think the admin's policy to get to know people on the forum before they're allowed to post on the wiki makes sense. Total strangers are unlikely to contribute to a narrow topic such as "Chile for gringos" anyway. Wikipedia had to change their policies from the early anything-goes days to limit bias and political turf wars on sensitive issues or commercial spam. On the other hand, the kind of embedded link I used (where the link is part of the narrative) tends to flow better and makes for easier reading, so there's something to be said for a linking policy that's a bit more flexible than the current one, at least on the wiki where some pages will be more valuable if they embed plenty of links. I know I'm bookmarking like there's no tomorrow to make our relocation easier (you know, where to get free WiFi, rent a car, and three dozen other things necessary to keep things as smooth as possible).

I'm curious what others think is a useful and valuable link and whether the way they're formatted matters. For me, digging out something that might be in Spanish is quite valuable, because I'm unlikely to find it through Google queries in English. Recent example in the forum: we've been talking about Movistar's mobile internet plans. To me, that's the kind of practical issue worth an explicit deep link (i.e. link to a specific page that describes what it is). You guys might well have different expectations about links, or maybe don't care either way.
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Postby go play outside on Mon Aug 27, 2007 3:18 pm

Well I moot it all gets resolved with an arm-wrestle. Best of three. Loser buys a round... :)
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spam and wikis

Postby admin on Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:36 pm

Regarding the Chile wiki, I have "ref=nofollow" tags automatically injected in to every link that is not the allchile.net domain, for whatever it is worth.

In theory, it is a way of telling the search engine spiders that the link is not approved and not to follow it, and thus hopefully scare the spammers away. In practice, we will see.

So, link away with all the key terms you like for now. Just keep it on topic, useful, and family friendly.

As far as spam goes on the Chile Wiki, at this point even the spammers are welcome ( really just a joke ). Someone please spam my wiki!!!!

I don't think on that one I am going to get too caught up in playing spam police for the most part on the Chile Wiki (within reason). Wiki's do have much more community policing built in to them as the editing and revision rollback features allow it to be taken care of by the community.

In regards to links on the Chile Forum, I do like to give links to sites that are useful. I noticed that tombrad2 was being nice and polite and trying to mention his page without spamming, and I PM'd and told him that he should put his site link in his signature. Everyone with more than 50 posts can do the same with their (family friendly) link. Once in a while I see a link that someone else has posted, I think it is great, and I go in and give a proper SEO link to it.

For the most part though, I don't want the spammers to see the key word links and get any ideas. just the url will get the job done with a description in regular text near it. Still clickable.
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hello

Postby bezaj on Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:25 pm

i know it's off the topic but i guess this place is as good for jump in as any other. i hope i didn't overlooked the topic where introductions should be done.

by some accident i crashed into chile (only on web) few weeks ago and i quikly decided that that is i should try. may be just because of my insanity or lack of understanding all the rational advice on this forum but at this forum my only interest is to start living on chiloe. well, should wait for my house to sale first:(

by the way: if anyone over there is interested in beautiful house on the other side of the world;)

this suppose to be a forum for people who know at leat something about chile and i don't now anything. so i'll rather "listen" till chiloe...

i'm not a native english speaker but i guess you will not mind:)

and to admin, congratiulations on professionalism on very high level

i suppose this is what i need to do to count?
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Postby admin on Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:07 pm

a bit off topic, but that is common around the forum.

Welcome to the chile forum
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Postby Louis on Sun Dec 23, 2007 12:37 pm

Slightly off topic, but also on topic, these spam writers come in and try to make these stupid forum links. They still haven't realized that Google has caught on to it and they discount links in a forum.

I have a teaching forum and we have had only two instances of spamming where someone tries to make a post. They are easy to discover. I usually just take out the links if the post is coherent.

That's why I use SMF, default out of the box, it's the most secure forum software out there...and it's free. You might like the default rss feeds they have for every room. And no I have no interested in SMF, I just like the software.
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