Chile Forum

Anyone got a test of telefonica del sur (not the same as telefonica)?

My wife has my blackberry at the moment. I will have to give movistar a spin too.

since we have at least one confirmed major Chilean ISP that is vulnerable (likly constituting at least 30% or more of internet users in chile), I think I will try and explain this in as simple terms as possible for our kids on the forum that are not up to speed on what this is all about.

Normally your computer connects to a DNS server to turn a domain like allchile.net in to an IP address 67.222.14.132 that is the servers address.

Internet Service Providers, provide a DNS server to help speed up the internet for their users.

If your Internet Service Provider's DNS server does not have the IP address already, it then goes out and connects to another to get the address. Once it has the address, it caches it in the event some other user or you wants to connect again to that address and saves time by keeping a copy around for a while.

The problem with this attack is that if like Telefonica's DNS server does not randomize the ports that it uses to connect to other DNS servers, then an attacker can respond with a fake address and the DNS server will keep it in its cache. So, when you go to for example connect to allchile.net or more importantly your bank web site, you get redirected to another web site. If the other web site looks like your bank, then you put in your password without being any of the wiser of what is going on.

So, the solution is to use a diffrent DNS server such as openDNS. Here is a nice step by step, with pictures of how to do it.
https://www.opendns.com/start

admin wrote: I think I will try and explain this in as simple terms as possible for our kids on the forum

An article critical of Apple for being slow to respond to the vulnerability.

www [dot] theregister [dot] co [dot] uk/2008/07/29/apple_dns_patch_mia/

Mark

That is just silly. Telefonica also. The patch for BIND has been around a long time. It is pure laziness or ignorance on the admins part.

Really, I can not think of one good technical reason why any server could not update or patch its BIND software. This is the Y2K bug with teath (big teeth). I mean I could imagine a major ISP needing to take a bandwidth hit for a while as it rebuilds its cache, but to just to leave it.

Perhaps I am just ignorant and missing some problem with running a massive public DNS server, but come on. If you are running something that big, updating and patching is like breathing air. You just have to do it, and do it regularly for it to work or die trying.

In fact, as I was testing my private DNS servers I realized that none of my installations had the problem. In fact, I am not sure any of them ever had the problem. My oldest install is at least a year and half old, and predates this whole show. If I find time, perhaps I will go do the proper archeology on the issue. I really don't care. It is a real security issue, but being treated in the press as another Y2K super star. There are far more likely vulnerabilities on the internet that keep me up at night.

admin wrote:We have the modem they use for phone service, it has port for internet.

Everything just became clear. I just learned they have a SBV5220 modem with VOIP built in. They aren't using it for the ethernet connection. (I.e., they don't use the RJ-45 connection on the back.). They use the crippled (by VTR) SBG900 for the ethernet connection. So, they basically have two modems. One is used as an ATA to connect an analog handset to VOIP (when it could connect computers to the internet). The other for connecting computers to the internet (without a firewall).

That's crazy. I'll sort it out when I get there. I think they're starting to realize the crippled SBG900 is a waste of money, and the fact that they'll "own" it at the end of the contract is pointless.

Mark

So, I will share the story of getting our phone lines and internet moved to a new house that is only about 1 km from our old house.

We learned the hard way the last time we moved, to not move until the phones and internet are really installed and working. VTR last time showed up to install, and then told us it would be 3 weeks before an IP address opened up in our area to move the phone number because they use a VOIP system. So, we thought we would get a head start this time, before packing anything.

This time we decided to drop VTR all together. We decided to drop VTR mostly because they could not find our new house. It is such a new sector it does not appear on any maps (including Google sat). We are still however for backup going to try and convince them it exist, and hopefully get that line and internet connection moved. Still, I will not cry any tears if I lost it. I almost never use that connection, unless the telefonica connection goes down. I have been using it as a simple fail over, rather than as load balancing for a while because our telefonica connection is much faster. The existing number we can simply redirect and disconnect the equipment.

While making the move, we decided to buy a bunch a commercial line package from Telefonica along with internet. In our buisness, the phone and internet more or less IS our buisness.

So, off to the races we went to get Telefonica to install new lines and move our existing one.

The problem they have with updating the DNS, has now become clear to me. We happened to get a small tour of Telefonica's back offices in Temuco in the course of trying to move the phone lines.

First the building was falling apart. The computers everyone was using in the back office where run from 486's Comcrashes ( A.K.A. compaques ). Those where not really any sort of thin client terminal stations either. Half looked like they had been dropped more than once. The whole office network looked like they had put it together with some scrap cables and some bubble gum. Yes, this is a major international telco. SELL YOUR STOCK!!!!

The most functional piece of computing equipment we seen was a black board and chalk.

We walked by the server room ( I think I seen a hand crank on the side of one of the servers next to the Ford model T logo). They probably can not load BIND, so no worries about patching it.

We where simply trying to get a phone line changed to a new house. They told us that it would take over a month to change the phone number. You are kidding me? It takes a month? They could install a new line however.

Well if it takes them a month to change a phone number, then I can see how it would be nearly impossible to update their DNS server. At least there did not seem to be anyone sitting at a switchboard plugging in wires. Then also, we only got to see part of the facility.

So, we had to start a compeltly diffrent contract to get a phone installed, while waiting for the other line to be switched. That was after over a week of having our application for new lines lost, misdirected, ignored, shrugged, and otherwise screwed up and finally making a trip down in person.

Their new wonderful mantra that smells of some under educated marketing guy's idea of management was that any time they could not do something they would tell us it was because they have different "channels". Channels? What the hell is a channel? I have heard of departments, sections, associates, and so on. What is a channel?

The translation was that 'we are 10,000 different companies using the same logo and have no way of communicating with each other even if the other "channel" is sitting on the other side of the room picking his nose and trying to get Solitaire to run on his 486'.

We wanted to buy four more commercial lines. Because the employees at telefonica simply did not know how to go about doing that, we finally gave up and went for having them install 4 basic consumer packages. The exact same thing, they simply did not know how to make commercial contracts in such a way as they all appear on the same bill with shared national/international min plans. I could not even imagine being a company with say 100 employees and 2 or 3 office buildings. Do you really give up your phone numbers while waiting a month to move? What happens during a sudden expansion of the buisness? Do you just tell your customers, sorry could not get more phone lines installed this month so we can not do more buisness?

I just found out what happened to half of Chile's gross domestic product. It can not get a dial tone.

So, we still have nothing more than a promise from Telefonica that they will install the lines sometime this weekend or next week. So, as backup we go to telefonica del Sur. They where able to deliver the next day without a problem. Internet, Phone, digital TV package. I will test and report back on how they do. I have one of their wireless phones, and it has worked fine over the last year or so.

So, at the end of the week, this is my ever growing list of companies that I have multiple communication contracts with including:

VTR (phone line, 1.2 mb broad band, and cable I have never plugged in to a TV)
Telefonica del sur (1 ADSL line 1.2 mb, 1 wired land line, 1 wireless line, 1 digital tv package)
Telefonica Spain ( 2 phone lines, and 2 ADSL broadband connections of 2 mb, 3 more lines on the way )
Movistar ( black berry with email/data plan, cell phone)
Claro (3 cheap calling card cell phones)

I might have forgotten one.

You see I really don't need all that, it is just that every time one fails I seem to find myself adding another contract to fill in the gap of what the others company can not be trusted to do reliably. I might add that most of those contracts above are not what I wanted, but what they could give me because the employees did not know how to sell the contract I wanted. It is just easier sometimes and quicker to take two lesser packages, then have no package.

Essentially, I need to become my own ISP, Phone company, and perhaps power company to get 100% up time. Most of these problems though again can be traced to management located in Santiago or even Argentina or Spain, not Southern Chile. Hopefully, telefonica del sur will not suffer the same problem as they do have main offices in the South.

We are set to add a bunch more employees and another office this year. If we have to go through that mess, especially loosing phone numbers after spending thousands of dollars promoting them calls for a serious long term plan to solve the problem. At least before we go heads first in to a disaster caused by the telephone companies not being able to deliver service in a reliable manner. So, it has me most definitely planning to build an in house PBX system that can move a small pool of land lines over an internal phone system and over the internet. I am also pawing over web pages that sell sat systems for backup, and solar panels.

It is not over yet. I will keep you updated on our move.

We had originally thought about just transferring our telephone/cable/internet contract with Telefonica CTC over to Temuco, we enquired and were told this would not be a problem. One month before leaving Conce we had a complaint to make at Telefonica and went to their offices.. after an hours wait we were attended by a less than helpful or friendly customer complaints staff.. so we asked to speak to the person in charge.. after entering his office he resolved our complaints in minutes and explained the mix up in such a way that I would have stayed with Telefonica just on the strength of his customer service skills!.. but it occurred me to ask again about the line transfer and how we should go about it.. and his response nearly had me falling off my chair.. this guy who was a manager told us if we planned on moving to Temuco there would be no advantage for us to transfer the line as we would lose the telephone number anyway since we were moving from one region to another.. AND that we would get the run around!.. yes that right.. a manager told us that transferring out contract was a waste of OUR time and MONEY.. he advised us to cancel the contract and get a new on in Temuco which would cut out all the BS and we'd not only get re-connected quicker but would most likely benefit from cheaper deal as Telefonica only looked after getting new clients not keeping them!!.. again I nearly fell of the chair.. He was brutally honest.. seriously I would have stayed with Telefonica had I stayed in Conce just because I would know he was the man to see... so we came to Temuco to do just as he had advised.. BUT in Temuco things were different.. Telefonica had no idea about customer service let alone how to SELL us their packages.. the girl that attended us had no more experience or knowledge about the products she was selling than I had!.. she was totally clueless and looked more interested in what her workmate was talking to her about... without any hesitation I told the wife we should head over to VTR and see what they had to offer.. obviously they were somewhat better.. the sales person at least knew the prices and products and was able to cater to our needs by modifying the triple pack to suit us.. and all of that was about 5,000 pesos cheaper than Telefonica.. oh and we we're connected on time! we set the date and time.. and the technicians were at our door.. unlike Telefonica where our new line installation would be within 15 days..

So we have VTR.. its isnt as a reliable connection as the Telefonica internet connection and seems slower despite the same 'speed' we had in Conce BUT any technical problems I have ha so far have been resolved within the day.. I remember with Telefonica we had to wait 3 weeks for them to come out and see why our Digital TV wasnt working.. it turned out to be a loose connection..

So far I am a happy VTR client... but then again I am not exactly running a business..

well, we got moved in to the new house. After hacking my way through walls and network cables all day, I finally have a second to test out the telefonica del sur line. So far not bad. Total lack of documentation with their speed touch modem and I could not read the kids hand writing for the password, but finally got everything working (I think).

I am however a little ticket at the tv is tied to a wep encrypted wireless connection that so far I have not figured out how to turn off without loosing the TV, but then also I have not spent a lot of time researching the unit they installed. I spent a good deal of time telling the kid that installed it that I wanted no open wireless connections from their equipment running on my network. Of course I made the mistake of running out to do some other things, and came back and there it was.

so, an update on my adventures in moving internet and phone providers.

Finally, we got telefonica del sur installed without a problem as mentioned above. In fact, a supervisor stopped by earlier today to check and make sure everything got setup correctly and everything was working. I again complained about the wep encryption, which really went no where; but, I also did not expect much. Just mostly wanted them to know that I knew the difference. I just firewalled the TV connection. When I get a moment I am going to run a network cable directly to the TV unit.

The interesting one was the ongoing saga of Telefonica of Spain. They finally came and installed one new phone line and internet connection. The piece of trash wireless DSL modem they brought was setup only to be accessed and maintained from their end (zyxel p-600). There was no way to turn off the wirless short of unplugging it, there was no way to turn off the dhcp, DNS, or anything else that conflicts with my own network. I told the guy to unplug it, and I plugged in the old modem I had from the other house that is just dumb generic ADSL modem. It seems you can use just any old ADSL modem on their network, so bring your own. The kid told me that they are switching to the new wireless one all across Chile. So, buy or bring your own. The kid just left the modem here, and I played around with it the other day. They have flashed it somehow with their own software, and there is no way to reset it. I suppose if I spent the time I could reflash it back to the factory defaults, just got better things to do than waist my time on a suspicious piece of equipment that cost about $30.

The even funnier one was, after talking to the kid for a while he said that Telefonica del Sur was a much better company because they have main offices in Southern Chile. He said if he did not work for the company, he would have a Telefonica del sur connection at his own home.

So, now I have one telefonica connection and one telephone line, and I have signed a contract to have two new lines installed. I am now going on over 3 weeks, and I still have not had my other two lines installed. They where suppose to be here last week. I have my secretary call them once a day. So, now I am at the point where I am simply going to cancel the contract, and go have telefonica del sur install more lines.

To top it off, after going round and round with telefonica about getting a commercial line package that no one in the company knew how to do or was willing to do, we finally signed a regular consumer contract for each line (same thing, more paperwork).

The first day the line was installed, we call our long distance carrier plan provider and they tell us that we can not use it any more because our phone line is marked commercial. Yet, I still can not get more than one phone line installed in my house per contract, or even just more than one line regardless of what they want to call it.

On another note, seems we where getting very burned at our last place on our telefonica connection. We contracted the exact same package we had, and the speeds are blistering fast. I suspect our old neighborhood was either over saturated, or the lines are bad. Everything in the neighborhood is new, as in the house across the street from us where not there last month.

The kid from telefonica also told us that it is standard company policy to ignore current customers and only focus on getting new customers. No one seems concerned that customers might be defecting. Again, sell your stock in telefonica.

admin wrote:The kid from telefonica also told us that it is standard company policy to ignore current customers and only focus on getting new customers. No one seems concerned that customers might be defecting.

VTR structures its offers similarly, with good deals available to new customers but not existing ones. Their staff in their retail offices doesn't have a clue it's bad commercial practice either. The only way to fight this type of behavior is through heavy churn. They'll end up with a lower number of net new customers, and high acquisition costs. They might adjust their behavior over a long period of time to recognize that ignoring your existing customers is damn stupid. In the short term, don't hold your breath!

If I remember correctly Bellsouth did the same with the prices for new customers, but if you were an existing customer and asked (or complained) for the newer rate they would give it to you. You didn't have to go through a manager level to get it.